Red Owl

Old Tread, picking up on it. I think it could have been a wiggle tail. If one was to tie for steelhead I think maybe the tail with pearl or pink beads a silver mylar body, the rest white. Here's the link I found: https://globalflyfisher.com/video/wiggle-tail-streamer

That loop might be the answer-thanks

Well, it must have been the white death zonker. The silver part had the braided appearance and when when he lifted it out of the water the tail, as I said, looked like rabbit fur. What got me was the fluttering effect- I didn't know you could do that with the fly. I think the reason he was reeling rather than stripping the line was to have the fish on the reel immediately. If you bent the hook- like a true turn- would that make it flutter, or a riffle hitch or both of them. I must lack the skills because I can only make a streamer dart. A while back I was watching a you tube of Ted Williams in Canada Atlantic Salmon fishing and it was the same thing. He had what looked a little like a brown/orange muddler but it was fluttering in the current and I figured it must be due to how the deer hair head is trimmed. On that, he was mostly just swinging the fly on a tight line, with the fly fluttering. On the Elk, the fly was being brought in and fluttering. As I said- maybe I just lack the skills to make a fly flutter.

I was on Elk Creek, Pennsylvania, about a week ago-after steelhead. Lots of spin fishermen and a few fly fishermen. This one fellow came up near me and cast out a streamer (minnow pattern)that looked to be about 2" long. It had a tail about half the overall length- possibly rabbit fur.. In any event this was a pool with little current- almost still water. He jiggled the tip of the rod and slowly reeled in line (not strip) and this streamer quivered and fluttered as it slowly moved through the pool. It was chrome and gave off a lot of flash- looked JUST like a minnow. I didn't get that good a look at the fly but it was either a chrome/Mylar tube or tinsel wrapped body. It was pretty incredible, he would drag this in front of a holding steelhead and get a strike on about every cast. I think he caught 6-7 good sized steelhead almost one after another. A strike on about every third cast. The best I can do is make a streamer dart in little 6" spurts but no flutter. Is there a certain kind of fly and technique that creates this fluttering? The pool was about 2' deep and this fly had a neutral bouncy as was mid-depth as it was slowly brought in.

Sounds from the stream and nymph descriptions that you are trout fishing in a stream. Your question is perhaps one of the all time questions on stream trout and I don't know if there is any set answer. I think you have to sort of "wing it" If it is riffle water and you are casting to a seam of a chute with the fly moving along pretty fast- I'd make maybe 6 casts and then move on. That is if I have a fly I am confident in. Of course you need to be in an isolated place that let's you move on. If the water is gin clear and you can see the trout, I've been in situations where upon the fly landing the trout sort of quivers. As the fly approaches the trout slowly rises, it looks over the fly and turns away- back to its original holding spot. Talk about a refusal. If I keep casting that same fly it likely will no be taken and I can screw up a cast or have a bad drag, etc. that puts the fish down for good. I've switched patterns on about every cast and have better luck. A GRHE......NO, a PT........No, An emerger pattern.... YES- strike. If the trout is a typical 10" size I've been using a plain clinch (not improved) knot. 4 wraps holds for fish that size. It's not a trophy- if the knot does fail it isn't the end of the world. The tippet through the eye, 4 wraps, the tippet through the loop between eye and first wrap. If you want to change flies you can use your thumb nail to pull the wraps back- undo the knot, and not cut down the tippet. This isn't usually a big deal but if you are changing flies a lot, saves the tippet and having to replace it after a few fly changes.

Maybe I'll try the zonker strips.

Well......I don't want to sound like a dry fly snob, especially when talking about wet flies but the little propellers, et al, I've considered them but I was also wondering if I curved or bent a hook so it was maybe like a true turn and then tied a streamer on that type of hook- would a tight line swing in strong current wobble such a streamer? Do streamers wobble any way ? ( I've never been in a situation where I could see them clear enough to tell.) As I said, I can start down the road of experimenting but if someone has already done it- no use repeating. The other issue is on certain fly fishing only waters- are flies with propellers still considered flies? Other ideas....sparkle hair type material tied and knotted to make it move around more. The half hitch (Rift?) knot over the head- does that make it wobble?

I used to use a nail knot all the time because I thought the line would turn over better but actually the loop to loop turns over just as well. I really can't see using any other system as you can quickly change leaders stream side which is a big plus. You can make you own loops in any fly line. Bend over the end of the line and use fly tying silk and let about 12" of the silk hang down, snap your wrists so the bobbin goes rotating around the junction and whip finish- takes about a minute. How well do they hold????? A year ago I was after Chinook on NY's Salmon River. I landed 3 and lost 6. All 15-20 pound fish. At day's end I noticed my loop had sort of tore a little even though it had held up throughout the day, the last salmon I landed. In any event the loop can be considered stronger than the tippet so the tippet will break before the loop fails.

Been thinking....you can cast a very small Mepps spinner and just keep it on a tight line. If the current is strong enough the blade will spin and the lure's turbulence "brooms" the spinner up high enough to not snag on the bottom of a stream. You let the current swing the spinner like a door and it actually catches trout pretty good. I think some of the gaudy wet flies of yesteryear did much the same thing but what I was wondering is if a wet fly or streamer could somehow be tied to act like a wobbling spoon- in other words flutter about on a tight line swinging with the current. I've considered bending the shank of the hook or applying off set feathers, etc. to create this fluttering motion but before spending a lot of time on experiments I thought I'd ask first in case this has already been done.

And....if you don't mind paying a fair sum of $$$ a place called Brigadoon. Biggest trout outside of Alaska. All catch and release. Also- why not venture up into the Smokies? NC is very good. I haven't done the stretch right out of Atlanta but I am told you can catch a bunch if you don't mind being near a big city. I can't take that traffic anymore.

Well I don't think you are getting the answer you are looking for. In addition to fly fishing I use other methods and maybe that sometimes gives a different perspective. You can use a Mepps type spinner and cast it across stream and keep a tight line and just let it swing like a door with the current. If the current is strong enough it will rotate the spinner blade. The idea is to position things such that this spinner swings right in front of the waiting fish. It works very well. On a fly I think you can do the same thing and a half hitch is made over the head on the fly to get it angled better. I think the half hitch might also cause the fly to flutter a little as it swings. Some streamers years ago were tied with side feathers that splayed out a little so if you "danced" the fly these feathers moved in and out like gills. I think the better fly might be something gaudy, tinsel body, etc. I don't think an egg pattern would work because eggs just go with the current, only a small fish would be moving around so the fly probably ought to mimic that. Good subject- I too would like to hear from anyone that has successfully used a pattern in this manner.

Well if it is trout on still water....I've never dealt with skaters but I think they were used mostly on slow running pools where the wind could knock them around. I wonder how well they would work on a clear lake- seems like they might do well. We have a lot of black crappies on "My" lake- yeah, I live on a lake and fish everyday. IAE they occasionally gorge themselves on tiny red larva of some sort- I think it might be blind mosquitos. These larva are maybe 1/4" long and a little thicker than a pencil lead and a darkish red. I need to hook up with a biologist at a local University to find the identity of them. I troll streamers quite a bit but you need a boat. If you can cast a long distance, then streamers but of course they are subsurface. They are also some aquatic insects zigzagging on the surface from time to time but the local fish seldom- if ever- seem to go on the feed after them. I've watch trout in lakes- as you said, very different- they prowl, sometimes in pairs.

Well, if I sneak up on a pool and peer through the shrubs and see some trout, good. If I then stand up they streak off sideways into overhanging banks. Okay so far. If I come back later, cast and hook one of them, more often than not they'll skip going under the banks and head straight down stream. These are pretty small trout that I doubt were ever hooked before. Why do they do that? Are they thinking? What are they thinking? Just wondering? I have some ideas and just asking what others opinions are? On the non-descript thing. I tied up some nymphs last night. A couple just gray wool and peacock herl and a couple with the works: tails, gills, wing case, legs, et al. To ME with nymphs with all the bells and whistles sure LOOK better.

I guess I'm having trouble communicating my ideas. A lot of newbies strip in line when landing a little 8" trout. Works okay, if fact I saw a world famous angler on a video playing a very small trout and stripping in line- I couldn't believe it. Why off the reel? Well the deal is on a better trout you might be stripping in the line and then it takes off on a strong run. If you try to stop it the tippet will break but- if you let it go you have a tangle of stripped in line that might snag on the guides of the rod- again letting the fish break the tippet. The other thing is if the reel's drag is to work, you pretty much have to take up the slack line and get it on the reel- otherwise a fish that runs is just taking off slack line at your feet. And then the day comes when you go after bigger fish. The biggest I've landed so far was a 20 plus pound Chinook that took off downstream with the reel screaming and me running downstream after it. That one took over a half hour to land on a 8 lb. tippet. The first 6 I hooked all did the same thing and I got so much line out that the current was acting on the line plus I was dealing with the fish and I lost all six. In any event, this is all "opinion" stuff but in my humble opinion it's a good idea to get in the habit of getting the fish on the reel asap. Once this becomes a habit you do it without even thinking. In any event the chumming for the pan fish thing- the idea is to simply get lots of practice dealing with fish and fly tackle, BTW, in certain Blue Water fly fishing they sort of do the same thing- they chum the water to get the fish going and then cast into the feeding fish- world famous sportsmen do this.

Yes, I must admit that generally if I am casting to a particular fish and after some time I just am not connecting even though the fish is still rising- I move on. A few times I've stuck it out and ended up taking the fish but generally I move on. ON THE SUNFISH- take plain old bread and tear it up into mini-marshmallow sizes and toss on the water. Pretty soon the sunfish turn into bluefish and are in a feeding frenzy. Toss out a white nymph and you'll take a sunfish in about 2 seconds. I caught around 130 one morning (threw them all back). For a youngster or anyone new to fly fishing the idea is to train the newbie to get the fish on the reel right away. A lot of fast experience for the newbie.