Jump to content
Fly Tying
bulb

back pain @22 yrs. . .

Recommended Posts

Had a quick look for older posts and didn't find anything so here goes. I'm 22 years old and have been tying for almost two years. The last 6-7 months I've been experiencing consistent back pains from tying more than an hour at a time. I experimented a little and I'm pretty sure it comes from leaning forward slightly when tying, in order to see better. Switched chairs and it got a little better. Anyone with similar experiences? Suggestions?

Cheers

Hugo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a quick look for older posts and didn't find anything so here goes. I'm 22 years old and have been tying for almost two years. The last 6-7 months I've been experiencing consistent back pains from tying more than an hour at a time. I experimented a little and I'm pretty sure it comes from leaning forward slightly when tying, in order to see better. Switched chairs and it got a little better. Anyone with similar experiences? Suggestions?

Cheers

Hugo

A vise extender may help. Puts your work closer to you and away from desk. Spend a little more on better lighting, cannot hardly get too much light.

 

If you happen to work in office and employer offers the resource, try to get an ergonomic evaluation seated at your workspace. They will correct posture deficits and you can try to set up tying area the same way. Some state OSHA agencies offer it free of charge.

 

If the job option does not exist, try online research in areas of proper sitting posture and office ergonomics.

 

Take more frequent breaks, setting alarm, if you lose track of time-easy to do.

 

The pain is telling you something, it is not just a matter of comfort but also safety. Spine problems must be avoided, medical care should not be delayed if you cannot address this quickly, on your own.

 

Best wishes for speedy fix...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Hugo, Indeed I do. I believe it is the position of your vice relative to your body.

A couple of questions, Do you have your vice so high that you have to lift up your elbows when tying? Do you tie at a table which you can get your knees under whilst tying?

 

If you have to lift up your elbows above a normal relaxed position then you are supporting the weight of your arms. It is not normal to hold your arms up for any length of time. When we do we usually have something in our hands we can brace against. You don't have that while tying. The only example I can think off, off the top of my head was from my time in the military, carrying a rifle for long periods in the "high port" or ready position. This wasn't painful as your body is braced against the rifle.

 

The answer then is to have your elbows down in a relaxed position. There is a way to measure what that position is for you. Sit in your tying chair and place your fist under your chin. The vice jaws should be around where your elbow comes to. Now comes the problem. That is not very much higher than table height. I would bet that if you can get your knees under the table, then any vice stood on the table will either be so high it causes you to lift your elbows, or is so low to the table you can't tie on it.

 

The solution to this is to get your vice off the table. Many people like pedestal bases on their vice, because it is convenient to just drop their vice on the table and go. They will say they tie away from home and can't always find a table they can fit a clamp to. Well I really do tie away from home a lot. Yesterday I gave a demo to Veterans in Helmsdale, the day before that at the local hospital, the weekend before last I was in Galway at the Irish Fly Fair. This is normal for me. In the last 20 years I have had difficulty with the size of a table top once. The solution on that occasion, was to fetch a small table from another room. Use the clamp for your vice. In addition get an extension arm to throw your vice away from the edge of the table. Set this up so that it comes out of the bottom of the clamp, like a letter "L", not the top. Using this the vice height is adjustable within what, I think you will find, is your comfort zone.

 

Now there is another problem. Your vice is now further away from your eyes. To view your fly it is tempting to lean forward. Until about 3 years ago, this wasn't a problem for me. Since then though, I have had to use glasses while tying. Reading glasses will not do for tying with this set up. Reading glasses are focused at the distance you would hold a book to read. The distance from your vice to your eyes can be 50% more. If you use reading glasses you will lean forward to bring the fly you are tying into the focus distance of your glasses. The good news is your optician can specify a different focus point when the glasses are made. When there is a two for one offer on get new glasses, have one pair set to your tying distance. (You'll probably have to ask someone to measure this for you).

 

A lot of people who fortunate enough not to suffer this pain, or do not tie for extended periods. They seem to think that this is not necessary. Lucky for them. You, like I did, are finding the pain enough to stop you from tying. This was the solution for me, and, I think, will be for you as well. Here is an image of one of my old vices set up this way.

Vice.jpg

 

I hope that helps some. I know it is a long post, and a bit involved, but I believe in understanding the problem, and have had endless criticism from the exponents of pedestal bases for suggesting this in the past. However, I am in good company using this set up. It is the same setup that the great fly tier Chris Helm used.

 

Cheers,

C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the great input guys. I'm tying on a hmh pedestal vice and as you both mentioned i think the distance between eye and vice is the key. I can feel a tightness/pain in my lower back muscles after sittning for extended periods and it gets worse if i lean forward, go figure...

The long term solution is definately a new vice but for now I'm going for regular brakes at 30-45 minute intervals and work on my posture. I should mention that I'm in Kenya right now traveling and I'll be in NZ from mid january to 1st of June next year, vice and fishing gear coming along of course. So I'll be doing alot of tying away from the comfort of my tying desk, and for now good lightning is one of the bigger problems. I might actually use my headlamp in absense of a better solution

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try a pillow positioned at your lower spine, it's lower lumbar support and you push your lower back right into it. And it makes a world of difference , especially combined with correct distances and posture. I'm a piano player/composer as well as X mechanic and fly tyer/fisherman. it seems in everything I do or have done in my life my arms are extended forward LOL ! There are times I ditch the piano bench and use a chair with a pillow ( acoustic grand piano) and I just keep a chair at my digital piano. I do the same thing on longer tying sessions, though I'm free to get up and roam around too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have had back problems since my late 20's early 30's due to motocross. I can't sit or stand for much more than 30 to 40 minutes with out some discomfort. If I'm standing I have to sit. It I'm sitting I have to get up. Then I take up fly tying in my 40's.


Now that I am 57, soon to be 58 it hasn't really gotten worse but it is still a hassle. Seems like when I am working on something and really making good progress the old back says hey dummy move your arse.


When I was training for CAD/CAM we were told to spend no more than 45 minutes at the computer. You had to get up move you legs and rest your eyes. Only needs to be 5 minutes but I feel that is sound advice for tying also.


The advise that Crackaig gave about the elbows is really good. Have your vise at your sternum and get as close as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know some professional tyers that tie standing up. Get yourself some of the ergo friendly gel mats and create a work area that is a comfortable height for you. There are some office desk top devices that are designed for a standing person and they work great for tyers.

 

J

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solid advice thanks rstaight and Jokey. I have given a height adjustable desk some thought, my parents have one I'll have to give it a try when i visit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the great input guys. I'm tying on a hmh pedestal vice and as you both mentioned i think the distance between eye and vice is the key. I can feel a tightness/pain in my lower back muscles after sittning for extended periods and it gets worse if i lean forward, go figure...

The long term solution is definately a new vice but for now I'm going for regular brakes at 30-45 minute intervals and work on my posture. I should mention that I'm in Kenya right now traveling and I'll be in NZ from mid january to 1st of June next year, vice and fishing gear coming along of course. So I'll be doing alot of tying away from the comfort of my tying desk, and for now good lightning is one of the bigger problems. I might actually use my headlamp in absense of a better solution

Not a bad thing to be away from home and in NZ for a nice length of time. Great fishing my friend .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow Dave G.,

 

Didn't even give my high school days a thought. I was a percussionist, started in 8th grade. Carried a field snare for a couple of years and the bass for a couple in marching band. The field snare was carried so our elbows were down. The harness for the bass kept the weight close to my body but my arms hung naturally some of the time.

 

In concert band I mostly played the Timpani (kettle drums for most of you folks). Again, my arms weren't extended.

 

Starting playing guitar in grade school. When standing I would have my arm down and the instrument would be positioned so my left hand was roughly shoulder height.

 

Still play guitar every now and then. The drums are long gone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mogup, I'm taking a gap year from the university for some serious flyfishing. Being out traveling and seeing a bit of what might have been if the dice had been rolled differently, I'm gratefull for being born in a country like sweden and part of a society where it's possible for someone like me to travel the world. Just have fix my back first ;D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Mogup, I'm taking a gap year from the university for some serious flyfishing. Being out traveling and seeing a bit of what might have been if the dice had been rolled differently, I'm gratefull for being born in a country like sweden and part of a society where it's possible for someone like me to travel the world. Just have fix my back first ;D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprised no one mentioned back strengthening exercises. Not the cure but conditioning the whole core muscles will definitely help now and prevent serious issues later in life too. Helps me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprised no one mentioned back strengthening exercises. Not the cure but conditioning the whole core muscles will definitely help now and prevent serious issues later in life too. Helps me.

Great point Salty, think we got focused on the short -term forgot the long game here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surprised no one mentioned back strengthening exercises. Not the cure but conditioning the whole core muscles will definitely help now and prevent serious issues later in life too. Helps me.

Yep I have back issues and I have to do back excercises or I pay for it real quick...makes a world of difference. I have no back pain as long as I do my excercises a few times a week

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...