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61 replies to this topic

#1 Savage

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 06:50 PM

I have not been fly fishing long but I primarily fish for bass, I have tried tying my own flieswith some success and caught some on some on wooly worms and clouser minnow variations that I tied. I use a baitcaster alot and know bass are suckers for crankbaits this time of year. So my question is are there any flies that can imitate a crankbait with the diving, the wobble, or the rattle that a crank bait produces? Thanks for any help I can get.

#2 Phish

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 07:48 PM

Yep! They are called Fish Lipps. You tie them on before start the flies.

#3 tidewaterfly

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:28 AM

Actually, they're called fly lipps http://www.flylipps.com

There's a plastic cone product too that works to give flies an erratic action, but I don't recall what they're called.

I also saw another plastic product that's made to be used with plastic baits. It's similar to the cone, but is more "T" shaped. It's threaded onto the line ahead of the hook & lure. I would say it would probably work with large streamers too.

If you're budget is limited, as most are, check out a crafts store or fabric shop for sequins. I've found some large ones that work as well as the above products. They can be added to the hook, just behind the eye, or on the line ahead of the fly with a few plastic or metal beads. You won't get the crankbait wobble, but you will get an erratic jerk bait action, which can be deadly!

If you can find them large enough, they can be trimmed to get a "bill" like is on a crankbait, but they're not especially stiff. However by doubling or tripling them they'll work.

In the 45 years I've been tying, I've played with many, many different things for tying flies! :D

#4 perchjerker

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 07:40 PM

One could end up with a book in giving a detailed response to this question. Divers, wiggle flies, spinner-bait flies (Buzz-Bait) have all been made by someone somewhere to imitate the action of 'crankbaits'. "Lips" of every shape and configuration can be cut from plastic hook boxes, the stiff 'new shirt' collar stays, etc. Diving/wiggle lips can ever bee made for 3mm 'fun foam'. An in-depth perusal of the literature, both old and current, should provide a wealth of information on this for you.

For example, a nice spinnerbalt fly can be made by tying in a short piece of 30-40lb monofilament vertically just behind the eye of the hook and attaching a few strands of Flasabou to the tip of the monofilament. The length of the monofilament is determined by the size of the hook and the fly itself.

Go to the saltwater fly literature for finding patterns with rattles built in. The "Rattle Rouser", and Ron Mayfield's "Rattle Mullet" are just two that come immediately to mind. The "Rattle Rouser" works great on both LMB (anywhere) and the Peacock Bass in the canals around Miami, Fla., and south thereof.

Ron's fly is easy to tie if you are somewhat adept at working with deer hair. He teaches our Intermediate Fly Tying course students how to do it, and they all do a very good job on it.

Please remember: It is "we" the tiers and fishers who designate whether the fly is "saltwater, freshwater, or Trout fly". The fish could care less, and they don't discriminate; especially if they are in a feeding mode, and it is presented to them.

#5 riffleriversteelheadslayer

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 09:28 PM

the cone that is mentioned is Marc Petitjean's magic head

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".--Thomas Jefferson

 

There is no such thing as a blank day for a fisherman. It will be saved for him by the white-throated weasel, who watches his fishing from a hole in the wall under which is lying a fish that refused all flies; or by the excitment of identifying insects; or by the apple-bloosom in a nearby orchard; and no one would call that day a blank on which he has seen a king-fisher." -- Arthur Ransome Rod and Line, 1929

 


 

 

 


#6 JSzymczyk

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 08:25 PM

In my experiences trying to do the same thing, I've found that flies with lips or cones pointing "forward" always cast like a giant turd with a helicopter blade attached. In other words, when being cast with a fly rod, the lip is traveling forward digging into the air--- exactly backwards of a crankbait or plug being cast on spinning/casting gear. Additionally the very small mass of the rest of the fly causes the thing to twist and spin something horrible while being cast. A properly tied Dahlberg Diver or Stealth Bomber gives you the same dive/wiggle as a shallow crankbait with the diving plane positioned opposite of a crankbait. They cast pretty well. If used on a sinking line, you could get the depth you want, although it might not be all that much fun. I constantly kind of wonder why folks try to imitate other kinds of lures with flies... my take on it is if you want to catch bass on a crankbait then just use a crankbait ?? nothing wrong with that.

the gales of November remembered...


#7 Kirk Dietrich

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 10:16 PM

It took me 6 months to develop this flyrod version of a swimbait but so far, the bass, redfish and tarpon love it and having an excellent swimming action without the lip it casts very smoothly. As JS pointed out, lipped flies catch the air on the cast and also grab the water when picking up the fly to cast.
Unfortunately, it takes a little over an hour to craft this bait out of foam and while it holds up to bass, the redfish tear it apart and it only lasts for 1 - 3 fish. I've got to get back to the drawing board to make one a bit more durable for the reds.

Kirk

Posted Image

Posted Image
Every now and then, I'll make a video, wish I could find time to do more; here is the link:
http://www.youtube.c...et?feature=mhee

I've got a few folders with photos of flies, these get more updates than my videos:
http://s136.photobuc...rofile/kirkdiet

https://picasaweb.go...rich?feat=email

#8 agn54

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:17 PM

Damn Kirk, those things look like those $15 Sebile plugs. Incredible work

#9 dreamcaster4639

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:25 PM

Those are cool I need some
Chris V.

#10 tidewaterfly

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:21 AM

the cone that is mentioned is Marc Petitjean's magic head


Thank you riffleriversteelheadslayer! That was it!

Kirk, that's awesome!

Savage, if you look around on Ebay, you may find some crankbaits that can be cast with a fly rod if you wish to go that way. Many of the older lure companies, such as Heddon, made such lures at one time.

My thoughts & experiences on crankbaits & flies with lips are the same as JSzymczyk. I use baitcasters too, and if I wish to throw a crankbait, then that's what I'll use! I had an old fly rod size Helins Flatfish many years ago. That was a good lure, Crappies & perch liked it, but more trouble than it was worth with a fly rod. It was a real good lure on an ultra light spinning rod!

There are plenty of good flies that will catch bass, and not give you the problems that a lipped fly might. But, since you're new to fly fishing, you'll likely try all kinds of things as most of us have! Take as much of the advise posted here & use what you like, then decide for yourself what works best for you!

#11 ditz2

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:38 AM

That reminds me. I have a few of the old fly rod flat fish. I need to dig them out and remember how bad they cast. :angry:

#12 JSzymczyk

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:47 AM

It took me 6 months to develop this flyrod version of a swimbait but so far, the bass, redfish and tarpon love it and having an excellent swimming action without the lip it casts very smoothly. As JS pointed out, lipped flies catch the air on the cast and also grab the water when picking up the fly to cast.
Unfortunately, it takes a little over an hour to craft this bait out of foam and while it holds up to bass, the redfish tear it apart and it only lasts for 1 - 3 fish. I've got to get back to the drawing board to make one a bit more durable for the reds.

Kirk

Posted Image

Posted Image


wow wow WOW!!

how about mono loops instead of screw-eyes for the hinges, or do you need the metal for ballast?

the gales of November remembered...


#13 Kirk Dietrich

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 01:52 PM

wow wow WOW!!

how about mono loops instead of screw-eyes for the hinges, or do you need the metal for ballast?


Thanks.
I tried mono but it pulled out of the body while fishing.
The screw eyes having threads give a good grip to hold in to the 6mm foam. I did go with SS spinnerbait wire for two of the top loops so the bottom will ballast and to reduce weight. For those, I bend back the SS like a little J to hold in to the foam. The other reason for the screw eye is so I can assemple the parts and glue seperately as the screw eye is glued in to the body opened up and then the sections are put together and I close the eyes with a needle nose pliers.
With the redfish, the foam was still glued to the screw threads but the foam in the head just failed. When the bodies pulled apart from the heads when I fished them on redfish, the holes left behind in the head where the screws were are larger than the screw eye. I need to go to a different material. It took about 12 prototypes and 6 months to get the size and weight balance where they swim beautifully and cast on a 7 wt. Although when I fished them for redfish in 24 inches of water, I threw a 9wt with an 8wt sink tip and made the fly dive down and swim near the bottom - it was funny to watch, in the clear water, those redfish light up and rush from five feet away. But at an hour and a half to make, I don't think I'll be throwing any more at redfish.

Kirk
Every now and then, I'll make a video, wish I could find time to do more; here is the link:
http://www.youtube.c...et?feature=mhee

I've got a few folders with photos of flies, these get more updates than my videos:
http://s136.photobuc...rofile/kirkdiet

https://picasaweb.go...rich?feat=email

#14 P.Dieter

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:13 PM

I have one of those swimbaits....no way am I every tying it on the end of my line. sitting on display only, sorry Kirk. ;)

#15 Stippled Popper

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 05:50 PM

I have one of those swimbaits....no way am I every tying it on the end of my line. sitting on display only, sorry Kirk. ;)


P

He has become used to it by now!