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barbless or not


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Poll: barbless or not

barbless or not???

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#31 Dble Haul

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 12:51 PM

QUOTE(OLB @ Apr 21 2006, 01:07 PM) View Post

I've never fished for any saltwater species, the only bony mouthed species I've fished for would be pike, and you'd think with bony mouthed fish in particular, it would be beneficial to have a barb on the hook dunno.gif


We're goin' in circles here. I just explained why barbless hooks would be easier to penetrate a bony mouth (less pressure needed, cleaner bite into the mouth).

As for whether there is a difference of barbed vs. barbless when using a nine foot long rod, yes there is a difference. It might not be huge, but basic physics makes it easier for the barbless hook to penetrate the mouth of a fish, bony or not. You're talking about how quick the hook set is (which would probably be identical for both hook types), but I'm talking about how sure and deep the hook set is. In that case, the barbless hook wins every time.

As I stated earlier, a barbless hook forces the angler to keep more tension on the line so that the hook isn't thrown. And so what if the fish throws the hook because you messed up during the fight? Learn from it and get better. wink.gif
Mark

#32 Alex C.

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 12:57 PM

QUOTE
We're goin' in circles here. I just explained why barbless hooks would be easier to penetrate a bony mouth (less pressure needed, cleaner bite into the mouth).


What I meant by a barbed hook being beneficial with a bony mouthed fish, would be that with a bony-mouthed fish, you wouldn't get as much stretching of the hole in it's mouth from the hook during the fight, as you would with a soft-mouthed fish. In that case, once the hook was set, it would be much harder for a bony-mouthed fish to throw the hook than a soft-mouthed fish

#33 steeldrifter

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 01:04 PM

I agree that a barbless hook penatrates faster (that has been studied and proven) but I also feel the hook size make's a big difference in that theory as well. On a saltwater or large freshwater hook the barb is pretty big so I can see faster/more peneration by not having a barb. On the other hand on small trout flies such as 16/18/20 and smaller the barb is so miniscule I honestly would have a hard time believing that it really makes much of a difference IMO.

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#34 Dble Haul

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 01:06 PM

Alex, I agree with you there, especially for fish like tarpon that will jump a lot. But since the entirety of your post was regarding hook penetration, I assumed that your last sentence regarding bony mouths was in the same line.
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#35 Dble Haul

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 01:14 PM

QUOTE(steeldrifter @ Apr 21 2006, 02:04 PM) View Post

On a saltwater or large freshwater hook the barb is pretty big so I can see faster/more peneration by not having a barb.


That's mainly the type of fishing that I do. I agree that with very small flies the barb vs. barbless debate regarding hook penetration is fairly moot.

Mark

#36 TerryLee

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 02:45 PM

QUOTE(Dble Haul @ Apr 21 2006, 12:51 PM) View Post
You're talking about how quick the hook set is (which would probably be identical for both hook types), but I'm talking about how sure and deep the hook set is. In that case, the barbless hook wins every time.

As I stated earlier, a barbless hook forces the angler to keep more tension on the line so that the hook isn't thrown. And so what if the fish throws the hook because you messed up during the fight? Learn from it and get better. wink.gif


I think that, up to a point (no pun intended, but it was good huh? tongue.gif ), the sureness and the depth of the hookset has more to do with keeping the fish on the line than the barb does, with the emphasis on depth, particularly having the bend of the hook being the part of the hook that is pulling against the fish. To that point (God, I kill me biggrin.gif ), provided the angler keeps the necessary pressure on the fish, as stated in the second part of the quote above, strictly considering fighting the fish the barb vs no barb conversation doesn't come into play. However, it is the initial penetration coupled with the pressure put and maintained on the fish that counts. Like has been said many times in this thread, a thinner, barbless hook will penetrate easier than one with a barb, or even a larger diameter barbless hook. Think about it, when you go to the doctor to get a shot, which one hurts more the big needle or the little one?

I caught my biggest fish ever on a barbless hook and I will try to post a pic when I get home of it, along with the story. The key point, though, is I never let the pressure off of her, which enabled me to keep her on the hook(well, that and a lot of luck, but I digress).


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#37 Alex C.

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 02:49 PM

After reading/ participating in this topic, I don't think I'll ever use a barbless hook, unless the law dictates otherwise

#38 mb82

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 09:45 PM

Can I change my answer. went fishing today and now I am having a hard time typing because for the first time in many years I hooked myself. Put a Sz. 8 streamer hook with barb into my right index finger and I got to say if I had not had a barb I would not be missing most of the skin off the tip of the finger right now... ouch. Now all of my flys are barbless BTW
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#39 Alex C.

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 09:47 PM

QUOTE
Can I change my answer. went fishing today and now I am having a hard time typing because for the first time in many years I hooked myself. Put a Sz. 8 streamer hook with barb into my right index finger and I got to say if I had not had a barb I would not be missing most of the skin off the tip of the finger right now... ouch. Now all of my flys are barbless B


Wuss tongue.gif

#40 mb82

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE(OLB @ Apr 21 2006, 10:47 PM) View Post

QUOTE
Can I change my answer. went fishing today and now I am having a hard time typing because for the first time in many years I hooked myself. Put a Sz. 8 streamer hook with barb into my right index finger and I got to say if I had not had a barb I would not be missing most of the skin off the tip of the finger right now... ouch. Now all of my flys are barbless B


Wuss tongue.gif

and proud of it biggrin.gif

To be honest only the flys I had with me today are barbless. Something tells me I won't get around to the 100 or so other flys and all of the flys I tie from now on. Once the finger heals I probably will curse myself for taking the barbs off.
Jeff
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-- M. Cartmill

#41 AlG

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Posted 21 April 2006 - 10:34 PM

QUOTE(mb82 @ Apr 21 2006, 10:45 PM) View Post

Can I change my answer. went fishing today and now I am having a hard time typing because for the first time in many years I hooked myself. Put a Sz. 8 streamer hook with barb into my right index finger and I got to say if I had not had a barb I would not be missing most of the skin off the tip of the finger right now... ouch. Now all of my flys are barbless BTW



The one and only time i hooked myself i just cut the barb right off, just pretty much fell out from there dunno.gif I figure why pay the extra when you can mash the barb anyway wink.gif

#42 billb

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Posted 24 April 2006 - 07:12 PM

I'm going barbless on everything I'm tying now, debarbing and sharpening before I pick up the thread. I figure that any fish I might lose on a slack line are made up for by the ones I don't inadvertently kill because I have a hard time getting hooks out of stressed fish.

Good thread!

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#43 bowfin47

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 07:47 AM

Back in the early 80's I saw a magazine article about two very anal fly fishermen, who spent several hundred hours flyfishing and comparing barbed and barbless hooks. I believe that they were flyfishing for bass.

Anyway, as I remember, the bottom line of their work was that while they did occasionally lose a fish to a thrown hook, overall they landed (i.e. hooked and brought to hand) almost 50% more fish with barbless hooks!

So, those of ya' that want to catch FEWER... keep your barbs! HA!

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#44 Dble Haul

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:16 AM

QUOTE(OLB @ Apr 21 2006, 03:49 PM) View Post

After reading/ participating in this topic, I don't think I'll ever use a barbless hook, unless the law dictates otherwise


I'm curious, what specifically about this thread made you come to that conclusion?
Mark

#45 madkasel

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:25 AM

I think I'm going barbless on anything under a size 16 or so. Sharpening every hook before it enters the vice, too.

Came to the conclusion after reading this topic, plus Dave Whitlock's thoughts on it, plus this guy's thoughts on it:

"One fly related key that Woodruff considers essential is the hook itself. In addition to flattening the barb, which he believes results in better hook-setting penetration, the guide is religious about checking the hook pointís sharpness."

The quote comes from this article, about a guide on a legendary Texas lake: http://www.heralddem.../outdoors02.txt


Added to all of this is the fact that my 8 year old is starting to flyrod. If he sinks one in his hand or cheek or MY cheek, I want it to come out easier!
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