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Irresistible


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18 replies to this topic

#1 dsaavedra

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 12:00 AM

i really wanna tie these flies. the main reason being their bouyancy. im tired of baby gills nipin at my dryflies, and getting them soggy before the big guys get to em. they can nip all they want with this fly, cuz deer hair aint goin down. but, i find it extremely difficult to tie.

1.] Spinning hair on that small of a hook is IMPOSSIBLE for me.

2.] Trimming the hair that short is very difficult.

3.] Because of the thread wraps from binding down the tail, my hair wont spin, i need bare hook to get hair to spin.

4.] trying to spin hair with such delicate thread is hard.

Anyone have any solutions to my 4 problems?

thanks guys.
"I sliced my finger up, but at least the popper looks great!"

#2 flytyer56

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 12:40 AM

I'm no expert shocking.gif but try these.
1) Try stacking instead of spinning your deer hair. Tie a clump on top of the hook,(don't let it spin) then tie a clump on the bottom of the hook using the same tie in spot.
2)Use a new double edge razor blade (carefully, they're sharp) along with your scissors.
3)See #1
4)Try useing 6/0 thread (140 denier) I use it and it works for me, plus doesn't bulk everything up as bad.
I hope this helps you out, and if all else fails just wallbash.gif or drunk.gif. Sometimes I do both.
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#3 dsaavedra

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 12:44 AM

ok that did help alot. i think i will go try stackign. i think it was the spinning that was giving me so much trouble, cuz it requires alot of thread tension. so hopefully no wallbash.gif required, and im a lil too young for drunk.gif
"I sliced my finger up, but at least the popper looks great!"

#4 dsaavedra

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 12:50 AM

i dont usually trim with a razorblade, i normally use an electric beard trimmer. ill try a new onesided one. i dont have any two sideds.
"I sliced my finger up, but at least the popper looks great!"

#5 Inconnu

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 01:09 AM

I'm a proponent of Deer Hair, I love the stuff, but would foam be of use here instead? smile.gif
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#6 Joe Hard

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 01:28 AM

You could also try a thread like unicord or simmilar that is real strong. If you add some super glue or crazy glue to the thread wraps over the tail and let it dry. The hair will spinn like crazy.


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#7 ashbourn

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 04:26 AM

I have to tie Rat Faced McDougals from time to time and alot of times I do the spinning not the thread.
Take a loose wrap or 2 around the hair and hook the slide the hair around with your finger. Give it a small pull to get a small flair then pack and do the next batch. This allows for you to use finer thread on smallers hooks and not have the breakage problem. Also on hooks with a very small gap use real short pieces that way when spinning it does on get caught up.
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#8 deeky

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 09:36 AM

Two items-

First, practice. It's all about learning just how much pressure it takes, how much you can use, and how to apply it. I'm down to spinning with 8/0 thread now for some smaller flies. It's possible, it just takes a while to learn. It is also possible to spin on a thread-covered hook. If you are having trouble, lay your bundle on the shank, put a couple of soft wraps around it, and then use your fingers to work the hair around the shank before drawing tight.

Second, don't use the single sided razor blade. They are made for cutting cardboard. They simply aren't sharp enough to do you right. Go to the health and beauty and for a couple of bucks get a pack of double-edge razors. They are specifically made for shaving hair and will be sharp enough. With the sharper edge comes less blade life, so you will go through them faster, but they do work very well when sharp enough.

#9 dsaavedra

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 10:59 AM

yeah i made one last night successfully. i found that stacking the hair was much harder than just spinning it, so i spun the hair. all went well. i ended up trimming most of the bulk away with the electric razor, then smoothing and tapering with my scissors. looks very nice. the only thing is....it sinks...what did i do wrong? is my hackle too long and my tail too short? did i cut the hair too short?
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#10 dsaavedra

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 12:17 PM

well that one was tied on a size 12 nymph hook. so i used a 14 dryfly hook, and left the hair a lil longer, and properly sized the tail and hackle. this one floats better than the other, but once it gets pulled under, it remains neutrally bouyant, just suspending in the water. i really want one that floats and will rise back up if it goes under. maybe my conception of the fly is wrong. is this fly supposed to do that?
"I sliced my finger up, but at least the popper looks great!"

#11 Fly Tyer Guy

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 08:51 PM

You may need more hair on the hook, You need to pack it (You need to push it back on the hook, A small piece of metal tubing works great).
What about using tan foam instead, A small piece on each side of the hook, Spiral wrap the thread up the hook (Just a thought) dunno.gif


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#12 letumgo

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 09:25 PM

The problem may be with the type of hair you are using. Keep in mind that deer tail hair is very dense and does not tend to be hollow in the center, therefore it will readily sink (that's one reason it is commonly used in streamer flies and Clouser Minnows). The hair you want to be using on a floating fly needs to be from the body section of a deer. The hair from the body is hollow and helps make the fly less dense and more buoyant. If you can get a rough idea of how hollow the deer hair is by pinching some of the hairs between your thumb and index finger. I find that the hollow stuff feels kind of "spongy". In other words you should be able to feel it compress somewhat.

The problem may also be with how tightly you have compacted the hair on the hook. I have found that an empty ball point pen (pull the center part out) makes a great hair packer. After you have spun the hair, you need to push the clump of hair back towards the bend of the hook. This forces the hair closer together trapping more air and preventing the water from soaking completely through the fly.

Once you master this part, you can then choose how dense you want to pack your hair and also what hair to use on your fly pattern. That way you can determine how the fly will behave in the water.

Hope this helps.
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#13 Alex C.

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 09:32 PM

I always avoided tying the irresistable for many of the same reasons. But the biggest reason of all was I figured I'd bend the hook spinning the hair. Then I realized that since I was making a spun deer hair body I could use a heavier hook such as a 3399 and it would still float just fine. Then I found out that if I use the right kind of hair and the right kind of thread, I didn't need so much thread pressure to make the hair spin.

#14 dsaavedra

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 10:34 PM

ok. heres the deal. im not using bucktail..thats for sure. i dont know from what region on the deer this hair came from, but since it will flair with ease, it is definitley hollow. on my next one, for experimentation's sake, ill use a different patch of a different species of deer. i was using whitetail, now ill try mule deer. ive had good luck with muledeer. yes i do pack my hair, i just use my fingernails tho. i find the ballpoint pen a hassle, but ill give it a try for the heck of it. guess my solution to my problem is to keep making tiny modifications to every one i tie, till its right dunno.gif dry.gif smile.gif
"I sliced my finger up, but at least the popper looks great!"

#15 dsaavedra

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 12:09 AM

well after much experimentation, i found that mule deer hair works better, and i finally got one to float!!! yahoo.gif yahoo.gif yahoo.gif !!!!!!! what i did was i left the deer hair a lil long, instead of the thin trimming that i had been doint. its a lil pudgy, and i think its ugly, but hey...if it serves the purpose, i like it! biggrin.gif ill post pictures later.
"I sliced my finger up, but at least the popper looks great!"