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Perch flies


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6 replies to this topic

#1 Papasequoia

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 05:48 PM

Hello all. I found this website while doing a google search on several different aspects of a couple of perch type flies I am hoping to tie. I am a relative beginner, just stepping up to some more advanced patterns, and I was hoping for some advice. I just posted an introduction in the new members section in case anyone is interested. Here is the pattern for the baitfish/perch type fly I am hoping to tie:

http://stevenojai.tr...m/perfperch.htm

My questions on the perfection perch are:

1) Hook size and type: I have looked at several hook comparison charts and can't find an equivalent for the Partridge 15BN. Also, the author only lists one size for this fly (#12) which I found a bit odd. Any thoughts on that? Target species trout, location Owens River, CA.

2) What kind of epoxy would be best to purchase to get that kind of a head? It looks like something thicker or heavier than what one would find with most epoxys?

3) Any hints on what type/size/brand of holographic eyes to purchase? Not sure if anything JStoddard carries would be similar to what is pictured here?

Thanks in advance for any advice. Jon



#2 tidewaterfly

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 06:23 PM

That Partridge hook looks like a scud hook with a straight eye. Other companies make them, but since it's a streamer type fly, many other styles would also work. Really depends on what size you think you want to use.

Devcon epoxy is pretty much the standard for fly tiers. I prefer the 2 ton 60 or 90 minute stuff, as it gives me added time to work with & coat several flies at a time. You may have to give it 2 coats, since the material might soak it it some.

The eye brand is likely not very important, any should work. The size will depend on the fly size you choose. Likely 3 to 6 mm for small flies.

#3 Papasequoia

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 08:05 PM

Thanks for the reply, Tidewaterfly! I refined a couple of my questions based on your reply (below)

QUOTE (tidewaterfly @ Dec 20 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
That Partridge hook looks like a scud hook with a straight eye. Other companies make them, but since it's a streamer type fly, many other styles would also work. Really depends on what size you think you want to use.


Well, that is what confused me, in that the tier who provided the recipe only listed size #12 rather than a range. My guess is I would want to tie them in #10-14. I've gone back to scouring hook comparison charts, but I still can't find what might work best; it is extremely frustrating. The only staight eye scud hook I can find on the charts is the Mustad 37140, but I don't know if this is a good alternative. This is one of the biggest problems I find in trying to expand the flies I tie: which hooks can really be used to copy a pattern that one may find? For example, I have a whole bunch of TMC 5263 hooks, which looks like a standard streamer hook, but I don't know if it is a good one for this pattern.

QUOTE (tidewaterfly @ Dec 20 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The eye brand is likely not very important, any should work. The size will depend on the fly size you choose. Likely 3 to 6 mm for small flies.


I see in the Stoddard catalog that they sell sheets of eyes but you need to select 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 5/16 and then various colors (gold, red, silver, yellow). The frustrating thing here again for the newbie is deciding which one(s) are the right size and color. I don't mind buying a couple of different sizes/colors, but would prefer not to buy 4x4 (size X color).

Thanks again anyone for any help with deciphering these riddles! Jon


#4 Philly

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Posted 20 December 2008 - 08:56 PM

You might want to consider going up in the hook size. Sometimes since we tend to fish small flies for trout, we underestimate the size of the bait fish that trout can consume. One suggestion is don't think in hook size but in the length of the bait fish pattern you plan to tie. For trout, 2-4 inches long would be a good size. You're talking a size 2 to 6 hook.

I use the SC15 for a lot of my baitfish patterns both salt and fresh. Gamakatsu has a freshwater version of the SC15 but I can't think of its designation.
As far as epoxy goes I use the 5 minute Devcon. I tie up the flies then do the epoxy one at a time. There's other stuff out there you can use to coat the head and eyes including clear silicone.
For this type of pattern, I prefer the 3-D epoxy eyes, again size of the fly dictates the size of the eye, but 1/8 and 1/4 wouldn't be bad sizes to start with. I like silver, pearl and chartreuse for the eyes I use.

Here's a 3 inch pattern tied on a SC15. Hook is Size 2. Head is epoxy. Eyes are 1/4 inch 3-D chartruese.

Attached Files



#5 tidewaterfly

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 12:26 AM

I agree with Philly, a bigger hook would probably be a better choice since this is a streamer pattern, and trout will still eat it. I would go with at least a size 8.

I've done some checking, and here's some other hooks that may be a substitute for that Partridge 15BN. Although they may not be exact matches in length or finish.
Daiichi 1260, 1270 & 1273 http://www.anglerspo...cat.asp?CatID=4
Mustad Signature Series C49S, C47S D, C53S http://www.mustad.no...gnature1_1.html
Tiemco TMC2499SP-BL http://www.tiemco.co...ts/flyhook.html
Gamakatsu SC15 http://www.gamakatsu.com/m_fly.htm
Partridge GRS12ST, K14ST http://www.partridge...co.uk/index.htm

As for the eye colors, I again agree with Philly & use silver or chartreuse most of the time, but I also have some red & gold. I just try to use a color that looks good to me with the rest of the fly. I don't think the fish care one way or another. And for info purposes, 3 to 6 mm is about the same as 1/8 to 1/4 inch.

#6 tidewaterfly

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 12:05 PM

Here's a few more hooks that work fine for that type of fly.

Mustad 10829BLN Big Gun Bait Hook http://www.mustad.no...oduct.php?id=29

Mustad 10841NPBLN Big Gun Bait Hook (light wire) http://www.mustad.no...uct.php?id=1978

I use a lot of hooks that are not "fly" hooks, but they serve the purpose well. wink.gif

#7 Papasequoia

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 09:31 PM

Thanks guys, all very helpful information. I wanted to share as well a website that I was directed to which shows the original tying instructions (with a different hook) and a different way to tie the fly. That can be found here:

.
http://www.flyangler.../041607fotw.php

Also, I got a reply from the tier of this fly I was asking about in a local CA fishing forum. I will copy his comments below. Btw, it turns out that the Partridge hook he uses is the Klinkhamer hook that Partridge produces. Here is the reply from the original tier (Steve Schalla aka StevenOjai):

"The Perfection Perch is a take-off from John Rohmer's Diamond Hair Minnow. The patterns use the same materials but different sized hooks and head material. JR uses Sally's Hard as Nails to create the head and secure the stick-on eyes. Kent Rianda's Perfection Perch uses epoxy for the same purpose. More durable but also more difficult to apply. No dubbing loops involved with the Perfection Perch, just wads of material that tend to be looped since the material is so long. I use an "x" wrap to attach the material, then come back with some additional thread wraps to secure and orient the fibers.
JR's minnows and the Perfection Perch use a Gamakatsu hook, SC15, which is really popular with the salt water guys. It's a tin-plated hook. JR tends to attach most of the materials on top of the hook shank with the hook rather exposed. The Perfection Perch is designed to hide the hook with more materials covering the bend of the hook. Either way, they both work fine for Bass. We've been using both patterns on Lake Casitas this Winter with good results. I happened to use the Klinkhamer-type hook since it has a similar profile to the SC15 but a thinner wire. Just a personal preference. Certainly, you can tie these patterns in a number of sizes. You could also use other hook styles. For some small baitfish, a scud-type hook could be a great choice with the wide gape. Lately, the larger sizes in #2-4 have been working better at lake Casitas with the larger shad colorations. The size #10-12 was a good size for the perch fry at Crowley during the early Fall. Just match the size of your fly to the size of the baitfish you wish to mimic. "