Jump to content


 Welcome to FlyTyingForum.com


FlyTyingForum.com is the largest fly tying community in the world and we hope you take a moment to register for a free account and join this amazingly friendly and helpful group of anglers. FTF has over 12,000 registered members that have made over 300,000 posts and have uploaded over 6,000 patterns to our exclusive fly pattern database!

If you are an experienced fly tier or just starting out FTF is the perfect place to call home. Click Here To Register for a Free Account

Fly Pattern Database / Browse by Topics / Browse by Material / Fly Tying Bench Database / Fly Fishing & Tying Videos / FTFCurrent(NEW!)
Featured Products: Fly Tying Hooks / Fly Tying Scissors / Waterproof Fly Boxes
Photo

WHAT THREADS CAN YOU USE


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 rdbedwell

rdbedwell

    Bait Fisherman

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 08 March 2012 - 06:32 PM

Just started tying and buying all the things I think I need. My wife has hundreds of spool of (non cotton) embrodery threads in hundreds of shades, The thread seems rather strong. 3/0 & 6/0. Can I use this resources for my thread needs?

#2 streamcaddis

streamcaddis

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 350 posts

Posted 08 March 2012 - 07:03 PM

Ok, 3/0 and 6/0 threads are good for big flies like streamers etc. I would use 8/0 and below for my dries, nymphs. If you can, head over to your local fly shop and they can help you.. :)
I was tying flies and fly fishing before it got trendy.

#3 rdbedwell

rdbedwell

    Bait Fisherman

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:49 AM

Just started tying and buying all the things I think I need. My wife has hundreds of spool of (non cotton) embrodery threads in hundreds of shades, The thread seems rather strong. 3/0 & 6/0. Can I use this resources for my thread needs?



#4 rdbedwell

rdbedwell

    Bait Fisherman

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:56 AM

Ok, 3/0 and 6/0 threads are good for big flies like streamers etc. I would use 8/0 and below for my dries, nymphs. If you can, head over to your local fly shop and they can help you.. :)

Thanks for the help. I never thought about them being too heavy. I guess I now get to start my own thread collecction.

#5 Stippled Popper

Stippled Popper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 986 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 05:46 AM

I've most often seen embroidery thread used in fly tying for making woven patterns such as the
overhand knot weave but never as a tying thread. Unless you separated the four to six strands
the thread would be way too big to use. Even then I wouldn't recommend it. Fly tying thread is
relatively cheap. Cabela's lists Ultra Thread for $1.49 and Uni-Thread is a bit more at $2.89.
You only need one or two colors to start out.

#6 utyer

utyer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,582 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:00 AM

Is there a denier weight on the thread spools anywhere. The Ought ratings vary quite a bit from different thread manufacturers. Something leads me to believe that a 3/0 or 6/0 rating on embrodery thread would be larger than a similar size thread for fly tying. You should be looking for thread in the 145 to 70 denier range. Even finer when you start to tie very small.

Unless your using the thread to form the body of the pattern, it shouldn't show except at the head. To get started, you should get white, or very light colored thread. You can use markers to darken heads if necessary. I have about 15 different markers just for that purpose.
"We have met the ememy, and he is us." Pogo by Walt Kelly

#7 perchjerker

perchjerker

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,274 posts

Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:42 AM

utyer...

Let me play the Devil's Advocate to your response.

Your point about denier is well made; but I am personally quite skeptical about it's accuracy between thread manufacturers, or batches within a given manufacturer. I can envision as much variability in it as you infer exists in the 'Ought' system. The kind of variability I can envision is not different from that of getting a precise color match between dyed batches of yarn, for example. As I am sure you are aware, Denier is a weight-based number for a specific length of the given material. Thus, this sizing system, particularly in the case of synthetics, is dependent upon the absolute uniformity of each 'batch' of the product produced. It is just as easy, at least for me, to envision similar vagaries in threads made from natural materials.

In other words, there is no single "Standard" for the denier of a given material that one can check a sample against. Each batch ("run") is it's own standard! I see this situation as being no better than the "Standard" for the "ought" system, which was based on single strands of silk, as I recall.

And I won't venture off into the TEX sizing system!

As far as I am personally concerned, there is no advantage to the Denier system for the fly tier. In fact, it is a hindrance until such time as I can get the "Ought" system Denier equivalents straight in my own mind!

Regards,
Frank

#8 FisherOfMen

FisherOfMen

    Beginner

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

Technically you can use anything. I started tying with my mom's sewing thread without a bobbin. I make a few wraps, then anchor with hemostats before fixing my grip and proceeding. Took 2hrs a fly or so. I had just started, had no idea what I was doing, and was DESPERATE!

Most people suggest 8/0 Uni for most everything, going to 6/0 for hoppers and small streamers, then 3/0 for huge stuff and bass bugs. This seems pretty reliable. It all deends on preference. If you have a bit of a heavy hand, use 6/0 to start. I use cheap Gander Mtn. 210 denier and can keep heads small enough down to a size 16 dry.
"Nothing makes a fish bigger than almost being caught." -Author Unknown

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -Edmund Burke

#9 Peterjay

Peterjay

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,969 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 11:52 AM

The thing to bear in mind is that fly tying thread is made specifically for that purpose and other types of thread may or may not be suitable. I use 3/0 monocord or Danville flat waxed nylon, 6/0 Uni-thread, and 8/0 Uni-thread, depending on the situation, sometimes more than one size on the same fly. Those three should cover every contingency you'll encounter as a beginner. My advice would be to stock up on all three sizes - thread is about the cheapest fly component there is. BTW - regular cotton sewing thread can sometimes be useful for building up bodies - I always have a spool on hand for that purpose.

#10 perchjerker

perchjerker

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,274 posts

Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:56 PM

peterjay:

You have a fundamentally good point; however, as readily available flytying threads are either polyester or nylon, any name-brand thread made of these materials should work just fine. For example, UNI is polyester, and is widely, and highly, recommended for making furled leaders. I have been using GŁtermann threads for over three years now for my furled leaders, and see absolutely no difference in the quality of such leaders and the one's made using UNI thread. I use their thread equivalents to UNI 3/0, 6/0, and 8/0. It is a whole lot cheaper, and I can get it on 5,000 meter spools(that's about 5500 yards) for about $12.00 per spool, plus S&H! Unfortunately, except for their UNI 3/o equivalent, GŁtermann threads are not readily available locally. Their UNI 3/0 equivalent,their "SEW ALL", is to be found in all Joann's Fabrics and Crafts, and comes in a myriad of colors. Occasionally, one can also find their silk thread in a larger Joann's than their typical store.

Cheers!

#11 SilverCreek

SilverCreek

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,014 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 11:18 AM

My advice would be to use and buy tying thread. They are stronger than sewing thread or embroidery floss, they are consistent in diameter and color, and they are relatively cheap.

I suggest starting with the UTC brand of threads because it is a flat thread that allows you to control the amount of twist in the thread; and it just about universally available. A flat thread minimizes tying bulk. Whatever thread you choose, stay with a certain brand initially to learn the characteristics of the thread.

Scott Sanchez's article is interesting because of the comments of the famous tiers at the end. Each has their own favorite thread, much like we have our favorite fly rods. Use the rod or thread enough and it becomes second nature. Marve Nolte said it best: He likes his thread because, "The stretch in the nylon tells him when to back off to prevent breakage, and he knows exactly how much room a few wraps takes."

Frontrangeanglers.com - Choosing the Right Thread

http://cdflyfishers....n of denier.pdf

http://mvff.tripod.c...ence/Denier.pdf

Here are two thread charts form the articles above.


Posted Image



Posted Image
Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

http://tinyurl.com/lgkbu7v

#12 perchjerker

perchjerker

    Advanced Member

  • Banned
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,274 posts

Posted 27 March 2012 - 01:41 PM

My advice would be to use and buy tying thread. They are stronger than sewing thread or embroidery floss, they are consistent in diameter and color, and they are relatively cheap.


This is not necessarily true! The Gütermann threads are, in fact, sewing threads, and their equivalent to UNI 8/0 has a tensile strength of 14oz vs 15oz for the UNI, and the Gütermann equivalent to the UNI 6/0 has a tensile strength of 25oz vs 29oz for the UNI. These variations are no greater than those listed by Helm vs Sanchez FOR THE SAME THREAD, as given in the two charts attached to your post; e.g., 15oz for 8/0 by Helm and 160z by Sanchez, and,29oz by Helm for the 6/0 and 33oz by Sanchez. In both examples they differ by 1 oz for the 8/0 (14oz vs 15oz vs 16oz) and by 4 oz for the 6/0 (25oz vs 29oz vs 33oz) based on my own calculations for the Gütermann threads. My "equivalency" is based strictly on the TEX and Diameters of the two different brands of thread (there is a direct mathematical correlation between TEX and denier, making the use of TEX perfectly legit.)

The color of the Gütermann threads is as consistent as in any other brand I have ever seen. Without having 'miced' any, I would venture to say the same is true for their diameter. I have passed several hundred yards of their threads through my fingertips while doing layouts for furled leaders (I use a standard tying bobbin for this), and like to think I can detect some pretty small variations this way.