21 replies to this topic

[blakejd]

I tie a lot of flies in the 20-26 range that seem to get a bit gummed up (at least for my taste) with head cement when it penetrates small hackle and things like peacock herl and I was trying to come up with solutions. Aside from using thinned head cement, which I use already, I was considering wax such as you see Davie McPhail use. I believe he uses prepared fly tiers wax from vienard. I'm a little ignorant when it comes to waxes considering I use dubbing wax about twice a year for random patterns and even then I usually leave the wax out after I get a feel for the materials. If I'm not completely confused wax was used in the olden days to secure whip finishes but it seems like most available waxes today are more focused on dubbing. Does anyone have suggestions for current waxes on the market for finishing off flies. Pros and cons of using wax vs cement? Thanks.

Josh

[flytire]

with a good tight whip finish, some tyers dont use either one to finish flies.

[Piker20]

Dito Flytire but also I have found that when I use wax to dub, the thread does bite down against itself and I never need to varnish. I use a beeswax block that I run the thread through 3 or 4 times and thats enough to wax it up for the fly. Also helps use much less wraps in the smaller sizes. Also i think it adds a nice olive hint to the fly.

[Crackaig]

If you want to use cement on the head try running a little down the thread that you will form the whip finish with. This should stop you putting to much on.

Historically wax was used for two reasons. To stop silk threads rotting, and to help grip the snelled gut or horse hair that was put on first on the blind hooks. Nothing to do with dubbing.

Cheers,
C.

[rockworm]

Your solution is a good one. Many tyers would say that if you whip the head twice you don't need cement. But when tying very small flies you need to use a minimum of thread wraps. In such a situation I almost always apply a bit of Whipping Wax to the thread used to make the head. This is the biggest advantage of using wax- you apply it only where it is needed! It doesn't soak into adjacent materials.

Very little wax is needed when whipping the head of small flies. The excess wax will be squeezed out of your whip finished head (and you will need to remove it with a bodkin.) You will see this even if you wipe the thread with your fingers before whipping. While the knot is being formed, friction causes the wax to liquify and this lubricates the thread-making it easy to tighten the knot. But then the wax hardens and holds everything in place. Pure beeswax works fine, but can be improved by the addition of small amounts of rosin and natural fats or oils. Most good tying- and dubbing-waxes are too sticky to permit the thread to tighten a 3- or 4- turn whipped knot.

[Piker20]

Pure beeswax works fine, but can be improved by the addition of small amounts of rosin and natural fats or oils.

How do you go about this? I've got a 10 inch block of the pure wax so can play around with it.

[rockworm]

Piker

The process is not complicated. You have the beeswax. You can get a bit of rosin from any good music store (It's used on the horsehair bows of violins, cellos, etc. and is relatively inexpensive.) You have many choi0ces for the oil- some swear by olive oil, or oil of cedar, some of the old-timers used lard. You will also need a small pan you can dedicate to melting wax. Basically, you just weight and/or measure your ingredients, place them in the pan, and heat (carefully) on the stove. (Preferably an electric stove since your mixture will be highly flamable!) Melt the wax and rosin, add the oil, and simmer for a while (say 15-30 minutes) while stirring with a wooden spoon or stir-stick. You want to keep the mixture simmering below the smoke point until all the moisture has bubbled off. (Rosin often has a fairly high water content.) Remove from the heat and continue to stir until the wax thickens (just before it solidifies.) Then pour into one or more containers for storage. I use empty chap-stick tubes, but you can use an appropriately-sized container made from tin foil.

The ratio of materials in your blend is pretty much up to you and how you want it to behave. Beeswax penetrates the thread and provides lubrication. It is the most important constituent of a Whipping Wax but, used alone, tends to crumble after thread is passed through it a few times. Oil/fat adds a bit of plasticity to the blend so it is easier to work with (and reduces the tendency to crumble.) Rosin contributes stickiness and increases the firmness of the final knot. Keep careful notes so you can replicate your blends and/or improve them. I would be interested in hearing your results.

[flytire]

making fly tying wax

http://globalflyfish...ter/dubbingwax/

http://flyanglersonl...ips/part139.php

http://www.flytyingb...real-stuff.491/

[Piker20]

making fly tying wax

http://globalflyfish...ter/dubbingwax/

http://flyanglersonl...ips/part139.php

http://www.flytyingb...real-stuff.491/

Thanks for the links there. I'll try this with some wax after the summer.

[rockworm]

Flytire has some good links there- especially the second one which gives recipes for dubbing-, tying-, and finger-wax. My Whipping Wax (for finishing off the head) has considerably less rosin than any of the above recipes.

[Jaydub]

Instead of applying the head cement to the finished head, have you tried applying it to an inch or so of thread before whipping? That might help keep it out of the other materials.

[flytire]

ditto above but using crazy glue in lieu of head cement. no whip finish required

[blakejd]

Wow thanks for all of the fantastic advice. To answer those of you that mentioned applying the cement to the thread prior to whip finishing I have done this but it still can get of the hackles of small flies that are hard to pull back without pulling the hackle out of alignment. Besides for some reason I just don't like getting the small amount of cement on my tools so I thought wax may be a solution. Are there any commercially available whipping waxes?

[flytire]

head cement, while wet, is easily wiped off any tying tools

cobblers wax

http://www.feathersm...ts/Cobblers Wax

[carlp5351]

One of the biggest tricks to appling head cement to very small flies is you have to custom make a bodkin to apply it. Most bodkins you buy have way to big of needles in them. The big needles pick up way to much cement on them, the smaller the needle the smaller amount of head cement. Take a dowell or something you can epoxy a sewing needle into it and use it to apply thinned head cement to small flies. Also keep your bodkin clean, the head cement will build up on it. Also use thinned head cement, I use the the Griffin thin for all of my tying.






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