12 replies to this topic

[quackhead1369]

Hey guys, I'm having issues with dead drifting my bugs. I've always thought that I was tending my line right but it just doesn't work out. Any tips would be deeply appreciated.

[kentuckytroutbum]

quack-

In order to help you, we need to know what type of flies, line type on your reel, the type of water that you're fishing, etc. Dead drift can mean different things to everyone.

Bill

[quackhead1369]

Sorry, I'm new to posting stuff. I'm rigged with a TFO 4wt with a WF Floating line. I throw mostly nymphs (prince & hares ears) under a balloon float on a 9ft leader. I want to start moving away from indicators due to seeing guys being more successful without them. I had a buddy get me into the game but since then have been self taught. I'm fishing mostly near trout parks in Missouri. I fish the rivers to stay outside of the parks.

[SilverCreek]

If you are fishing with an indicator and the indicator is tight to the flies, you are not dead drifting. The water at the surface generally travels faster then the water close to the bottom so the indicator is pulling the flies down stream. It is only when there is slack between the indicator and the flies that the flies are free to "dead" drift free of the pull of the indicator

When there is slack between the indicator and the flies, there will always be a delay between when the fish takes the fly and indicator shows the take. The slack must first be removed before the indicator's drift can be affected.

You cannot have it both ways. To indicate a strike, the indicator must be tight to the flies, but if it is tight to the flies, the flies are not dead drifting.

Hence the conundrum of the dead drift using indicators.

What most indicator nymphers try to do is to "bounce" the nymphs on the bottom at least once or twice during each drift. This does two things. It shows that the depth is set correctly because the nymphs are hitting bottom so the flies are in the zone. Secondly, each time the nymphs hit bottom, the drift is slowed down closer to "dead" drift speed.

Dead drift is defined as motion without drag. But not all drag is equal. A fish is more likely to notice if an item is either pulled sideways toward or away from the bank, or up and down, out of its drift lane. If the fly remains in the drift lane, but is moving slightly slower or faster; it is not as easily noticed. A car that is weaving slightly is easily spotted but one that is moving slightly faster or slower is not. That is the same principal.

Drag that pulls the fly out of it drift lane is more noticeable than drag along the drift lane. So if you fish with and indicator, it is important that the fly and the indicator are in the same current seam. If they are not, the indicator and the fly will pull on each other laterally.

[gpd4]

Meramec, Current, or Niangua?

[oldtrout58]

Keep your rod tip high and keep as much fly line off the water as possible (some people hold their rod parallel to the water). Lead your flies downstream with the tip of your rod. Your rod tip should track slightly downstream of your leader/flies. The line will slope from the rod tip to the water(not a straight line). When you have a take or think you have a take, set the hook downstream.

It's hard for me to explain in words, but easy to demonstrate.

[quackhead1369]

Meramec, Current, or Niangua?

I do all three as much as I can. Being out of St. Louis, Mearamec and Current are the closest for me to hit. I take a trip to Tanny at least once a year.

[quackhead1369]

If you are fishing with an indicator and the indicator is tight to the flies, you are not dead drifting. The water at the surface generally travels faster then the water close to the bottom so the indicator is pulling the flies down stream. It is only when there is slack between the indicator and the flies that the flies are free to "dead" drift free of the pull of the indicator

When there is slack between the indicator and the flies, there will always be a delay between when the fish takes the fly and indicator shows the take. The slack must first be removed before the indicator's drift can be affected.

You cannot have it both ways. To indicate a strike, the indicator must be tight to the flies, but if it is tight to the flies, the flies are not dead drifting.

Hence the conundrum of the dead drift using indicators.

What most indicator nymphers try to do is to "bounce" the nymphs on the bottom at least once or twice during each drift. This does two things. It shows that the depth is set correctly because the nymphs are hitting bottom so the flies are in the zone. Secondly, each time the nymphs hit bottom, the drift is slowed down closer to "dead" drift speed.

Dead drift is defined as motion without drag. But not all drag is equal. A fish is more likely to notice if an item is either pulled sideways toward or away from the bank, or up and down, out of its drift lane. If the fly remains in the drift lane, but is moving slightly slower or faster; it is not as easily noticed. A car that is weaving slightly is easily spotted but one that is moving slightly faster or slower is not. That is the same principal.

Drag that pulls the fly out of it drift lane is more noticeable than drag along the drift lane. So if you fish with and indicator, it is important that the fly and the indicator are in the same current seam. If they are not, the indicator and the fly will pull on each other laterally.

That actually explains alot. So do you think that I am better off trying to tight line nymphs? If so, is hookups done on feel at that point?

[quackhead1369]

Keep your rod tip high and keep as much fly line off the water as possible (some people hold their rod parallel to the water). Lead your flies downstream with the tip of your rod. Your rod tip should track slightly downstream of your leader/flies. The line will slope from the rod tip to the water(not a straight line). When you have a take or think you have a take, set the hook downstream.

It's hard for me to explain in words, but easy to demonstrate.

Thanks for the tip, I'm going to try it out, hopefully I'll stumble into the correct form quick.

[oldtrout58]

Keep your rod tip high and keep as much fly line off the water as possible (some people hold their rod parallel to the water). Lead your flies downstream with the tip of your rod. Your rod tip should track slightly downstream of your leader/flies. The line will slope from the rod tip to the water(not a straight line). When you have a take or think you have a take, set the hook downstream.

It's hard for me to explain in words, but easy to demonstrate.

Thanks for the tip, I'm going to try it out, hopefully I'll stumble into the correct form quick.

Often when watching others fly fishing sub-surface, I observe that line control to be the most important aspect that needs work. You may need to strip line back in as the flies come toward you as well as raise the rod tip. If you're using a bobber (indicator), it will serve you well to learn to stack mend. Fly fishing is not rocket science, but a heck of a lot more fun (for me) when done successfully.

One tip that may serve you well, the shorter you cast, the easier it is to manage a dead drift.

[SilverCreek]

That actually explains alot. So do you think that I am better off trying to tight line nymphs? If so, is hookups done on feel at that point?

It depends. You need to read the water. Here's a simplified explanation.

Indicators are most effective when there is not much differential between the water speed and flow at the bottom vs the top. Since you set the depth of the flies, you also want a relatively constant depth over the water you will be fishing. Otherwise you end up resetting the indicator; or if you don't reset, you will be less effective.

This type of water is relatively low gradient with a relatively smooth bottom so there is not much differential between the surface flow and with a low gradient, it will be of relatively constant depth.

I have found that higher gradient water water with an irregular bottom and turbulent surface is better fished with direct line nymphing. The turbulent flow allows you to get closer to the fish and fish with a shorter line. You rely on both "feel" and visual cues to detect a take. Instead of indicators that "float" the fly, we use "sighters" that are in line brightly colored mono that allow the angler to see subtle movements that indicate a take.

Sometimes I direct line nymph and other times I use an indicator or a dry dropper. It all depends on the water and how it is best fished.

There is also a concept that I have not seen anywhere that I call "effective drift length". Effective drift length is the distance of your fishing drift that the flies are at the depth of the fish. If you have a dead drift that is above the holding level of the fish, it may be a dead drift but it will not catch fish. The time spent by the flies to reach the the fish is wasted. For example, if it takes half of the drift for your flies to reach the fish, half of the drift is wasted.

So you need to get the flies down to the fish. This means when you short line nymph, the flies have to be on the bottom right away because the total drift length is limited. When you float indicator nymph, you manage the the depth of the indicator and the weight. When you short line nymph, you manage the weight of the flies and split shot. Both are to get the flies down to maximize the effective drift length.


The more you understand what is going on underwater and what you want to do, the more effective you will be. If you are casting randomly, you will catch fish randomly. If you plan where you want to cast and where the flies will be when they begin effective drifting, you will begin to improve your skills.


In this way, nymphing is similar to dry fly fishing. When you dry fly fish, you don't cast at the rise point because the fish is holding above where you see the rise. He backs down under the fly and then takes it before returning to his lie. Similarly, you need to plan where you cast your nymphing rig so that the fly is down at the level of the fish, when it goes by where you think the fish is holding. Think in 3 dimensions because if you are off a foot in depth, it is just like being off a foot when dry fly fishing.

[quackhead1369]

that is a great explaination. I really appreciate the help. I'm going out next week with a mess of freshly tied nymphs, I'm putting this to use.

[planettrout]

Some tips...

http://stevenojai.tripod.com/nymph.htm

PT/TB