New rod/reel...got some questions

[FattyMatt 0]

Hi guys,

 

Ive been fly fishing for 10 years using cheap < $100 combos. So i just got a Temple Forks Outfitters, Left Kreh Professional Series, 10 ft 7 weight, med-fast 4 piece coupled with a Lamson Konic 3.5 Reel II. The guy at Cabela's spooled it with Scientific Anglers WF-7-F floating line w/ dry tip technology.

 

I bought this reel to use on the Delaware River for smallies and stripers and the Atlantic Ocean for flounder, blues and stripers. Thats why i opted for the in-between 7 weight.

 

So I took it out on the Delaware today wading in 3' of water and I dont know how to explain my dissatisfaction except to say i feel like the line sort of "died" when making long casts. I was using unweighted deceivers, up to 1/8 oz clousers, weighted and unweighted EP minnows, poppers of all different weights and sizes and weighted bellyache minnows. The heavier the weight, the less the line "died" when casting. Conditions were a little windy, 10 mph steady with 15 mph gusts.

 

So my questions...

 

Given the fact that the unweighted flies were not casting very well and i would like to throw these types of flies in similar wind down the shore, what should i do?

 

Options:

 

1) give this combo more time

2) Perhaps change to an 8 wt line since the reel is a 7/8 reel

3) Change to an 8 wt rod and 8 wt line

4) Switch to a fast-action 8 weight

 

While im an experienced fly fisherman, Im relatively new to the gear game and need some guidance.

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

[Spanky29ca 0]

I would give the combo more time, I had the same issue when I went from a cheapie rod to an orvis, I had some issues to say the least..... but after using it more and more I got to know the sweet spot and was casting much better with it. Going to an 8wt line would be the next less expensive route than getting a whole new rig. Some rods load better with over weighted line, I'd play around a bit more until you get used to the rod. Just my opinion, I'm far from an expert on the subject

[FattyMatt 0]

I would give the combo more time, I had the same issue when I went from a cheapie rod to an orvis, I had some issues to say the least..... but after using it more and more I got to know the sweet spot and was casting much better with it. Going to an 8wt line would be the next less expensive route than getting a whole new rig. Some rods load better with over weighted line, I'd play around a bit more until you get used to the rod. Just my opinion, I'm far from an expert on the subject

 

Thanks spanky. Would putting 8 wt line on a 7wt rod be considered "over-weighting" f the reel is a 7/8? I dont fully understand the relationship i guess.

 

The rod seems to bend too much in the middle. I feel like thats where im losing that "snap" needed for extra distance. It is a dream to cast short though

[mikechell 0]

In my experience, loss of line speed going forward is usually due to improper pick up and snap going backward. When you get enough line out, you aren't snapping the back cast hard enough. The line is actually dying behind you, so when you come forward, the line dies in front of you.

Give the rod some time. Learn to feel proper line movement in both the front cast AND the back cast.

[Spanky29ca 0]

I would give the combo more time, I had the same issue when I went from a cheapie rod to an orvis, I had some issues to say the least..... but after using it more and more I got to know the sweet spot and was casting much better with it. Going to an 8wt line would be the next less expensive route than getting a whole new rig. Some rods load better with over weighted line, I'd play around a bit more until you get used to the rod. Just my opinion, I'm far from an expert on the subject

 

Thanks spanky. Would putting 8 wt line on a 7wt rod be considered "over-weighting" f the reel is a 7/8? I dont fully understand the relationship i guess.

 

The rod seems to bend too much in the middle. I feel like thats where im losing that "snap" needed for extra distance. It is a dream to cast short though

 

It's defiantly not over weighting at all, you have a perfect setup to use 8wt line if all else fails , You will feel it when you get it right, there is a definite learning curve when getting a new rod. A 7wt has plenty of backbone to launch larger flies even in windy conditions, just be patient and I have no doubt you will get it. I know a ton of people that absolutely love TFO rods and swear by them.

[Bugsy 0]

Given we're "not there," like other responders, I can only speculate.

 

First, you may be a fairly good or excellent caster, and the rod may have a sweet action, but if it doesn't agree with your casting style, you may never enjoy it or use it to its advantage. If the rod is noticeably different in length, line weight, action and/or feel from what you've previously used, you may need to give yourself more than one outing with it to adjust to it. That said....

 

I've not cast that rod or any rod from that series, so I can't draw on a lot. The series is described as "med-fast," but sometimes the longer rods in a series have a slightly slower action than their shorter siblings. I would expect a med-fast 10' rod to flex considerably in the upper half when under load. For your purpose, you want the rod to have a powerful butt. As a modern rod one would choose for streamers, steelhead and light saltwater duty, it should have a strong butt.

 

If you're like most of us, your technique probably isn't perfect...or near perfect. Your ability to generate higher line speed will help you extend your casts and heavy/bulky flies to max distance. You want to get the rod to do the work for you, and to do that you need to get it to load. Hauling (or double hauling) on the back and forward casts will help get your line speed up as well as load the rod early. Other players are casting arc, acceleration, timing and positive stops.

 

I don't know what line taper they sold you, but it may not be the best taper for your rod, your casting technique, and your fishing conditions. For what you describe, I'd look at a line taper that is biased toward the front (i.e., "front loaded" not just weight-forward). Rio's Outbound Short is one such line, as is Scientific Anglers' Magnum Taper, Titan Taper or even GPX. These lines have short front tapers and heavier bellies with a lot of mass to propel bulky and heavy flies farther. A traditional, non-specialized WF line has longer front and rear tapers that work better in other situations (smaller flies, softer presentations, etc). That's not what I would use for the fishing you describe. Also, not only are these aforementioned specialized lines front loaded, they're a bit heavier (by about 1/2 a line weight). I would not recommend buying an 8wt line for your rod without investigating the options in 7wt. That's what we commonly did before there were so many options in tapers but is not the best path today IMO. I know there are members here that think these specialized tapers is just another way for line mfrs to milk money out of us, but it's amazing what the right line can help you accomplish with a particular rod.

 

So for your options. My first inclination would be to go back to Cabela's and talk to an experienced staff member about your setup. Maybe the employee that helped you previously didn't set you up with the best line for your purposes. Or maybe that particular rod is the dud in the series (they do exist), and you'd be better off with a different model in the series...or something from another mfr or series. Or possibly an 8wt rod would be the better choice altogether for handling coastal conditions without leaving you overgunned for river duty. I don't know how accommodating Cabela's is with their return/exchange policy, but if you think there's any chance it's the gear, it's probably a trip worth making.

 

 

[FattyMatt 0]

In my experience, loss of line speed going forward is usually due to improper pick up and snap going backward. When you get enough line out, you aren't snapping the back cast hard enough. The line is actually dying behind you, so when you come forward, the line dies in front of you.

Give the rod some time. Learn to feel proper line movement in both the front cast AND the back cast.

 

Given we're "not there," like other responders, I can only speculate.

 

First, you may be a fairly good or excellent caster, and the rod may have a sweet action, but if it doesn't agree with your casting style, you may never enjoy it or use it to its advantage. If the rod is noticeably different in length, line weight, action and/or feel from what you've previously used, you may need to give yourself more than one outing with it to adjust to it. That said....

 

I've not cast that rod or any rod from that series, so I can't draw on a lot. The series is described as "med-fast," but sometimes the longer rods in a series have a slightly slower action than their shorter siblings. I would expect a med-fast 10' rod to flex considerably in the upper half when under load. For your purpose, you want the rod to have a powerful butt. As a modern rod one would choose for streamers, steelhead and light saltwater duty, it should have a strong butt.

 

If you're like most of us, your technique probably isn't perfect...or near perfect. Your ability to generate higher line speed will help you extend your casts and heavy/bulky flies to max distance. You want to get the rod to do the work for you, and to do that you need to get it to load. Hauling (or double hauling) on the back and forward casts will help get your line speed up as well as load the rod early. Other players are casting arc, acceleration, timing and positive stops.

 

I don't know what line taper they sold you, but it may not be the best taper for your rod, your casting technique, and your fishing conditions. For what you describe, I'd look at a line taper that is biased toward the front (i.e., "front loaded" not just weight-forward). Rio's Outbound Short is one such line, as is Scientific Anglers' Magnum Taper, Titan Taper or even GPX. These lines have short front tapers and heavier bellies with a lot of mass to propel bulky and heavy flies farther. A traditional, non-specialized WF line has longer front and rear tapers that work better in other situations (smaller flies, softer presentations, etc). That's not what I would use for the fishing you describe. Also, not only are these aforementioned specialized lines front loaded, they're a bit heavier (by about 1/2 a line weight). I would not recommend buying an 8wt line for your rod without investigating the options in 7wt. That's what we commonly did before there were so many options in tapers but is not the best path today IMO. I know there are members here that think these specialized tapers is just another way for line mfrs to milk money out of us, but it's amazing what the right line can help you accomplish with a particular rod.

 

So for your options. My first inclination would be to go back to Cabela's and talk to an experienced staff member about your setup. Maybe the employee that helped you previously didn't set you up with the best line for your purposes. Or maybe that particular rod is the dud in the series (they do exist), and you'd be better off with a different model in the series...or something from another mfr or series. Or possibly an 8wt rod would be the better choice altogether for handling coastal conditions without leaving you overgunned for river duty. I don't know how accommodating Cabela's is with their return/exchange policy, but if you think there's any chance it's the gear, it's probably a trip worth making.

 

 

Thanks for all the insight Mike. They spooled the reel with SA's GPX, claiming it was a good all around line for the flies i tie. I feel like i need to give it more time and maybe watch more videos on casting. As long as i have been doing this, ive never used a large arbor reel or 10 footer, and i could certainly have developed some bad habits.

 

Can you or anyone recommend a good power-casting video?

[FattyMatt 0]

by the way cabelas has a 90 day no questions asked guaranteed return Policy. I bought everything 2 weeks ago

[Bugsy 0]

GPX should match up fine. It's a 7.5wt line, so there's enough weight. You may be trying to carry too much line in the air, thus dumping the line on long casts.

 

Thanks for the return policy info. Hadn't realized it was that generous.

[ditz2 0]

It sounds as if you are an experienced fly caster. If that is true I believe that you have spent enough time with the rod to have learned it's timing. I own a couple of TFO rods but not one like yours though I am not a fan of anything longer than 9' and prefer shorter except in the salt. Many many newer black rods need to be overlined IMO. Including TFO. I have one TFO that is rated as a 2wt and I use up to a 5 line on it. I have found that one line wt up is many times what is needed on rods listed as 'fast' action. There are many lines out there that might help make the rod load to your feel that are labeled as 7wt but if you can overline with a generic line it will be easier to replace the line when this one wears out and the specialized line is no longer manufactured. Many specialized lines are being discontinued and may not be available at a later date. I believe that GPX line is long belly WF line basicly designed for trout. I do believe that a shorter bellied line such as a bass taper or salt water taper would probably suit you better. I also think one wt heavier will serve you well also. The 2wt rod that I mentioned above was kind of dead with the 2wt line and I put it in the corner after it's first outing and it sat there for several weeks. I finally decided to put a 4wt line on it and give it another whiz. That heavy line made that rod come alive and it is now my most used rod. I do think your problem is the line.Before giving up on the rod like I did try another line. You may get a big surprise. Good luck

[FattyMatt 0]

It sounds as if you are an experienced fly caster. If that is true I believe that you have spent enough time with the rod to have learned it's timing. I own a couple of TFO rods but not one like yours though I am not a fan of anything longer than 9' and prefer shorter except in the salt. Many many newer black rods need to be overlined IMO. Including TFO. I have one TFO that is rated as a 2wt and I use up to a 5 line on it. I have found that one line wt up is many times what is needed on rods listed as 'fast' action. There are many lines out there that might help make the rod load to your feel that are labeled as 7wt but if you can overline with a generic line it will be easier to replace the line when this one wears out and the specialized line is no longer manufactured. Many specialized lines are being discontinued and may not be available at a later date. I believe that GPX line is long belly WF line basicly designed for trout. I do believe that a shorter bellied line such as a bass taper or salt water taper would probably suit you better. I also think one wt heavier will serve you well also. The 2wt rod that I mentioned above was kind of dead with the 2wt line and I put it in the corner after it's first outing and it sat there for several weeks. I finally decided to put a 4wt line on it and give it another whiz. That heavy line made that rod come alive and it is now my most used rod. I do think your problem is the line.Before giving up on the rod like I did try another line. You may get a big surprise. Good luck

 

Hey ditz, when you say "generic line," can you elaborate? Is it cheaper than the $75 SA?

[FattyMatt 0]

Any fly fishing experts near Philadelphia? I'll take you to a good striper spot if you'll try my new rod out and help me troubleshoot it

[PENZZZ 0]

FattyMatt,

In fly rod design and building there are no industry standards that rod companies are forced to comply with. Each company has rod blanks built with flex points and power ratings they want to represent in their line of fly rods. So when it comes to fly lines matching up with rods there are differences between one company and another.

 

The closest thing to a standard is that a five weight rod should cast comfortably and efficiently with 30 feet of a five weight fly line extended beyond the rod tip (excluding the leader). Casting just 15 feet of line would feel under loaded and you'd have to create some extra snap in your cast to get the line to roll out nicely. A way around this would be to try one line weight higher if you would plan casting short distance all day. On the other end of the spectrum is a case where you plan to make 50-60 foot casts all day. In this case the five weight rod would be asked to propel nearly twice the line weight, something it physically may not be capable of doing. At 50 feet the five weight rod likely will propel a four weight line much better.

 

If you're asking your seven weight rod to cast 50-60 feet of seven weight line that might be your problem. Try this, string a six weight line through the guides (maybe even a five weight line) and do some lawn casting. See whether the rod handles the lighter line better at 50-60 feet. If so, and you feel you need a seven weight line to present the fly weight, you may need an eight weight rod strung with seven weight line to do what you want to do.

 

There are ways to measure a fly rod's physical strength and other properties but that's a subject for another discussion.

 

Hope this helps.

Jeff

[ditz2 0]

With a 10' rod and a 9' leader and if you are standing at spot zero you have a 19' cast without one foot of fly line hanging out of the rod tip. Now if you have 30' of fly line out of the rod tip and you can shoot 10' of line you have made a 60' cast and there is only 40' of line beyond the tip of the rod. ......Actually a 7wt rod should handle 40' of a 7wt line in the air easily and now if you shoot 10' of line you have made a 70' cast. A 70' cast should be relatively easy to accomplish. At least it is well withinthe rods capability. Many graphite rods cast much better when overlined these days because of the manufacturers race to build 'fast' rods IMO. I have not heard of many fellas underlining rods these days. If a caster is trying to airialize 70 or 80' underlining might be needed but at that point we are looking at casting 100'+.

[COMike 0]

Hi guys,

 

Ive been fly fishing for 10 years using cheap < $100 combos. So i just got a Temple Forks Outfitters, Left Kreh Professional Series, 10 ft 7 weight, med-fast 4 piece coupled with a Lamson Konic 3.5 Reel II. The guy at Cabela's spooled it with Scientific Anglers WF-7-F floating line w/ dry tip technology.

 

I bought this reel to use on the Delaware River for smallies and stripers and the Atlantic Ocean for flounder, blues and stripers. Thats why i opted for the in-between 7 weight.

 

So I took it out on the Delaware today wading in 3' of water and I dont know how to explain my dissatisfaction except to say i feel like the line sort of "died" when making long casts. I was using unweighted deceivers, up to 1/8 oz clousers, weighted and unweighted EP minnows, poppers of all different weights and sizes and weighted bellyache minnows. The heavier the weight, the less the line "died" when casting. Conditions were a little windy, 10 mph steady with 15 mph gusts.

 

So my questions...

 

Given the fact that the unweighted flies were not casting very well and i would like to throw these types of flies in similar wind down the shore, what should i do?

 

Options:

 

1) give this combo more time

2) Perhaps change to an 8 wt line since the reel is a 7/8 reel

3) Change to an 8 wt rod and 8 wt line

4) Switch to a fast-action 8 weight

 

While im an experienced fly fisherman, Im relatively new to the gear game and need some guidance.

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

 

 

Matt,

 

Have you practiced with your setup?

 

Can you make good loops with it?

 

Until you tell us this we cant help!

 

Mike