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circle/khale hook questions


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13 replies to this topic

#1 thinkingredneck

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 07:01 AM

Do any of you use circle/ khale hooks for LMB flies? If so, do you strip set? I like the way they hook with bait (I know, I'm chagrined) without gut hooks. I also don' t really know the difference in how khale hooks work compared to circle hooks. Thank you for any experience/knowlede/opinions you can share.
I agree with every known theory of fly design... John Geirach

#2 Dave G.

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 07:19 AM

I haven't used khale s so can't comment on them, though it looks like the principle is similar to circle hooks. I have used circle hooks. Circles hooks work well when you want to make a fly with a lot of trailing material, the main body trails even. Circle hooks have a way about them, they hook up well. All I can say is pick some up and try a couple of patterns on them. But all the ones I tie are on fairly heavy shanked hooks and they ride hook point down FWIW.

 

I also tie a bunny strip, basically looks like a sand eel for salt water, as a stinger fly off the back of a top water plug using circle hooks. In fact it was why I got into circle hooks in the first place. Best I can say is they hold a striped bass pretty well too. It's just  a flash off the back of the hook and the chartreuse or olive rabbit strip tied down on top of the hook and a tomato soup red head, that's it. I tie them with mono cord. Stripers take them vs the big plug that got the thing out to where they are rising. I use these when I see a bunch of people throwing top water plugs to rising fish but no takers, that's when I know they are on little bunker or sand eels.


John 7:38 ESV  is about "Rivers of Living Water"


#3 tidewaterfly

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 10:18 AM

I tied some flies for flounder many years ago on Kahle hooks, as I also used them for flounder rigs. Kahles are more like the wide gap offset worm hooks than circle hooks. Kahle hooks & "Shiner" hooks are basically the same. They can be used for flies. I stopped using Kahles for flies primarily because the points were offset or "kirbed" & they would pick up grass & debris. I went to "keel" hooks, which at that time were available in stainless so for flounder were a good hook. They also worked well for most anything else I might encounter. Unfortunately, they're no longer made. There is a company now marketing keel style hooks as bass hooks, but they're black nickel carbon steel, not stainless. I still have a small supply of the stainless, but for bass I would try those black nickel hooks. (Haven't yet, but likely will!)

 

I've tried the Mustad Circle Streamer hooks, but don't use them now. For some fish species they work great, and can work for bass, but if you "strike", which is a habit most of us have, it pulls the fly out of their mouth 99.9% of the time, so I've stuck with "j" hooks. I strip strike most of the time, and that doesn't work with circle hooks. The design of a circle hook is such that once the fish takes the fly or bait into it's mouth & turns to swim away, they hook slides to the corner of the mouth & sticks setting itself. Trying to set the hook with a circle hook doesn't allow all of this to happen and results in pulling the hook from the mouth. 

 

For bass I tie some streamers on a VMC offset worm hook that has a longer front section than most worm hooks, which makes tying on them easier. They ride hook point up and so don't snag much. 

 

Kahle & circle hooks are better for baits than flies IMO, but it might depend on the situation & conditions. I used to tie a bunch of "Chum" flies for a tackle shop, which were used basically by feeding the fly back into a chum slick from a boat. They could also be used from shore, but the boat scenario was how most fished with them. With a fly like that, where it was drifting and there might be some slack in the fly line, a circle hook would likely work great. That's just one example I can think of. Dave's use above is another, and I've added flies to plugs in a similar manner, but I still stick with "J" hooks for my flies. 



#4 phg

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 10:29 AM

My experience with circle hooks is that they are great for bait hooks.  Their design is such that, if a fish swallows the bait, you can pull it out without snagging the stomach, but it will catch the corner of the mouth as it comes on out. 

 

This isn't usually a factor in fly fishing.  We don't generally let the fish keep the fly long enough to swallow, and, with few exceptions, they aren't going to swallow it anyway.  (Yes, I have had bass and bream hit a dragon fly nymph with such abandon that they would have swallowed it, but that's rare.)  Generally, if we don't set the hook, quickly, they'll spit the fly out, so a properly gaped "J" hook seems to be the best way to go.



#5 Bimini15

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 11:17 AM

I have recently tried some circle hooks on baitfish type flies that I toss out from the bank near a ledge. Can't see the fly as it goes down but I get good hookups if a fish takes it on the drop, before I even notice. I have hooked a fish or two in the gut doing this with regular hooks before, and I really hated it.
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#6 mikechell

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 11:27 AM

My experience with circle hooks is that they are great for bait hooks.  Their design is such that, if a fish swallows the bait, you can pull it out without snagging the stomach, but it will catch the corner of the mouth as it comes on out. 

This for circle hooks.  

[attachment=57696:circle.jpg]

Designed for bait fishing.  Supposedly, you aren't supposed to "set" the hook at all with them.  Just a steady pressure on the line is supposed to be all that's needed to embed the hook point. 

I am too ingrained with setting the hook, I can't make myself NOT ...

I tried them, back when I did do some bait fishing for salt water fish ... but only for a short time.

 

Kahle hooks are not circle hooks.  There ARE hybrids that look like a cross of the two, but I don't count them.

[attachment=57697:Kahle.jpg]

I've never used them for it, but I think they'd be great for "Surf Candy" and other such streamers if oriented like this.

[attachment=57698:Kahle 2.jpg]


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#7 tidewaterfly

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Posted 16 July 2016 - 02:51 PM

Mike, the Kahle hooks I used also had a bend at the eye. They were intended to be snelled to a leader, which is what I did with them when making flounder rigs. Still work the same. 

 

Those you've posted are also sold as "Shiner" hooks. I've seen them sold as "Croaker" hooks too. 

 

Mustad makes a style that was also known as "English Bait Hooks" and were/are popular for patterns such as San Juan worms. 

 

I've never seen anyone use the Kahle hooks like you've shown for Surf Candies, but have seen other hooks that had a similar bend used for Surf Candies, just not as pronounced. You may be right about them however. I've used some hooks for poppers that positioned the hook point like that, but the shank towards the eye was longer like a "stinger" style popper hook. IMO, that's not a bad idea for surface flies since it puts the point well below the surface. I feel they hook up better than a typical "j" style used for poppers. Not the same style, but I've used Gamakatsu Skip Gap worm hooks for poppers & the hook point ends up in a similar position, which IMO works great! wink.png

 

It also hasn't been mentioned, but circle hooks are available "inline" , and with an offset to the point. The offset tends to hook better, but still causes a higher rate of gut hooked fish when swallowed & really defeats the purpose of using a circle hook. If you're tying flies on a circle hook & are concerned about gut hooked fish, be sure you're using an "inline" type circle hook. Some manufacturers will even call them "Tournament" circles, since many tournaments that use baits have banned the offset circles for use in their tournaments. 

 

I agree very much with phg about using "J" hooks for flies. I rarely get a gut hooked fish on flies, and even those that take a fly deeper, are usually not too difficult to get unhooked with forceps. I also generally like to keep flies moving, so a "J" hook works best. 



#8 Capt Bob LeMay

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 08:00 AM

Circle hooks for flies - are a solution in search of a problem....  That said, there's one other small matter about circle hooks that bears remembering.  Most anglers, learn early to set the hook on any bite (whether they're fly fishing or using any other kind of gear...) and that really will cost you fish with circle hooks, since the striking routine will prevent a circle from doing its job - and many missed strikes is the usual result.

 

I do use a lot of circle hooks for live bait - particularly tarpon fishing.  In every case I try to keep the rod in the rod holder until after the strike -and our solid hookup percentage is nearly 80%.  If my angler is holding the rod and strikes the fish - we'll miss most of them....  Funny thing, with most fish a circle hook will catch in the corner of the mouth - with a tarpon we catch nearly every one right in the center of the upper jaw - almost without exception...  The best part is that the only thing in the fish's mouth is that hook and it never gets to touch the leader - very handy with big fish...


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#9 thinkingredneck

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 08:15 AM

Thanks for the replies. Y'all are great! Bob Clouser had mentioned using them for baby Tarpon in his book. I did not know if they would work on LMB, given the way they suck in their prey. I have never used them for anything but surf bait fishing.
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#10 Guest_rich mc_*

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Posted 17 July 2016 - 02:54 PM

i have used a kahle hook for bass and they do fine. i tye a chenille worm and with a med dumbell eye tied on more toward the bend it stands up.   rich mc



#11 ihang10

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 06:23 PM

So, Ill resurrect this thread, as I am thinking about circle hooks in my Intruders. Last year going for Silvers there where pinks in the river and probably out numbered the silvers 15:1. I spent a lot of time clearing off foul hooked pinks while stripping streamers and Im thinking the circle hook might prevent some of the foul hooking incidents.

For that use, Id be interested in any opinions on using circles.

#12 Philly

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Posted 25 April 2019 - 09:38 PM

I've used both circle hooks and khale hooks for flies.    I can't remember the company name that produced the circle hooks, but they were made down to size 12 and 14.  They were fairly light wire so I tied some dry patterns on.  They didn't work that well.  It's not that I wasn't getting takes just that I was doing a strike set and pulling the fly out of the trout's mouth.  A couple of times where I had the patience to count to three, I did manage to hook the fish.  It was just frustrating.  I still have some of the hooks sitting in one of my boxes gathering dust.  I use circle hooks for live lining minnows these days and they're very effective with the live bait.  Khale hooks I just didn't like the looks of the flies I tied on them.  Now a days I tie buck tail on them for flounder and walleye rigs.  I don't know how they would work with Intruders.  I imagine they would eliminate the snagged fish.  You just have to remember not to do a strike set when you feel a hit.  Just lift the rod and let the fish hook themselves.


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#13 rscconrad

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Posted 26 April 2019 - 08:24 AM

I have used khale hooks for intruders, The hook substitutes for the shank. I still have a trailing number t4 hook tied on firewire.  Nice concept but not so practical.  It didn't work to well, looked nice though.  Way to many snags .



#14 Dominecker

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Posted 27 April 2019 - 06:15 AM

I like circle hooks for bait fishing and catfish jugs. Not for flies, IMO. If you tie flies on them, you are going against the way they are designed to be used, and are handicapping yourself.