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When to glue, When not to glue?


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27 replies to this topic

#1 FreshH20

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:29 AM

Glueing can be somewhat tedious and messy. It seems as though from fly to fly, I'm not using enough or to much. When should I use the brush or use the application tip. Is there a best method to apply this stuff. Second thing is how many different glues does a tier need? Head cement, lacquer, easy flow, UVC, thick flow, goo, thin, epoxy, quick dry, never dry, flexi bond, etc. I actually thought my eyes were going to start bleeding reading all the different glues. Seriously, I have figured out that most of my fishing is subsurface, which leads to more fly damage. Is there one goo better then the other? 



#2 Flat Rock native

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:50 AM

Glueing can be somewhat tedious and messy. It seems as though from fly to fly, I'm not using enough or to much. When should I use the brush or use the application tip. Is there a best method to apply this stuff. Second thing is how many different glues does a tier need? Head cement, lacquer, easy flow, UVC, thick flow, goo, thin, epoxy, quick dry, never dry, flexi bond, etc. I actually thought my eyes were going to start bleeding reading all the different glues. Seriously, I have figured out that most of my fishing is subsurface, which leads to more fly damage. Is there one goo better then the other?

One correct answer is zero, a good whip finish is all that is necessary. Will leave the GLUE REVIEW to the experts.

ps. Welcome to the forum, keep posting

pss- If I had to pick just one Sally Hansen Hard as Nails, applied with bodkin on small heads would be it. Describing the style of fly you wish to tie will help the experts...

Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#3 Peterjay

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:53 AM

It depends on what you're tying. I use Flexament (or it's equivalent - I make my own) for a construction cement and either a head cement, (Sally Hansen) Liquid Fusion or epoxy, and it takes care of all my needs. I tie for salt water, and the harsh conditions require that ALL materials be glued down securely. (a lot of tyers use superglue, but IMHO it can be more of a hassle than it's worth) You can get away without using a lot of glue in fresh water, but the fact remains that cement will make your flies more durable. Most commercial cements come in a bottle with a polyethylene stopper under the cap. Just insert a large needle through the stopper, and there's your applicator. You can also pick up a needle with a wooden handle at Michael's or AC Moore. (I think they're in the pottery section) Like I said, it's all about your fishing conditions, and how durable your flies need to be.  



#4 Flat Rock native

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 10:59 AM

It depends on what you're tying. I use Flexament (or it's equivalent - I make my own) for a construction cement and either a head cement, (Sally Hansen) Liquid Fusion or epoxy, and it takes care of all my needs. I tie for salt water, and the harsh conditions require that ALL materials be glued down securely. (a lot of tyers use superglue, but IMHO it can be more of a hassle than it's worth) You can get away without using a lot of glue in fresh water, but the fact remains that cement will make your flies more durable. Most commercial cements come in a bottle with a polyethylene stopper under the cap. Just insert a large needle through the stopper, and there's your applicator. You can also pick up a needle with a wooden handle at Michael's or AC Moore. (I think they're in the pottery section) Like I said, it's all about your fishing conditions, and how durable your flies need to be.


FYI pjay, the link in your signature line may be broken...

Kenduardo's Lure & Fly

Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#5 Hatchet Jack

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:23 AM

Is there a best method to apply this stuff.

 Something I've picked up from watching Davy McPhail's vidoes -

I apply a wee bit of glue on the thread triangle that goes around the whip finisher.

The glue stays on the thread, doesn't get into hackle, etc.

One has to clean the whip finisher occasionally but no big potatoes.

 

Best glue?

Not a clue unsure.png


Always quit when you're through.


#6 heavynets

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 11:40 AM

For a whip finish I prefer to use none, but rather use two whip finishes, one on top of the other.  When I do use a glue on thread I use Crazy Glue with its brush applicator.  For eyes, I use E-6000 (Walmart) and then cover them with Solarez thin UV resin which overlaps slightly onto the surrounding material.  I also use Solarez on my Clouser Deep Minnows.  I've been trying Fabric Fusion on occasion and find it works well especially if flexibility is required.



#7 Bryon Anderson

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 12:10 PM

I use glue only when I've tied something heavy and/or bulky onto the hook and I want it to stay put--hair wings on dry flies (dab of head cement at the base), dumbbell or hourglass eyes on streamers, heavy monofilament weed guards on bass bugs, rattles on bass bugs or streamers, etc. I have two glues on my desk: Fly-Tite tying cement, which I use for light-duty applications such as the bases of wings and wing posts, and larger thread heads on streamers, and Loc-Tite CA glue with a brush applicator, which I use for the big stuff that I don't want moving around.

 

I know the UV cure products are all the rage now, and I'm sure they're good for some applications, I just haven't run across a situation in which I felt it was needed. yet.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that I paint the bottoms and faces of my deer hair topwater bass bugs with the Loc-Tite -- seals out water on the bottom and bonds the hair to the hook shank so it doesn't get waterlogged and want to spin around the hook shank. Keeps the face nice and stiff for a good "pop", too. It's also good on Dahlberg Diver collars.


"... trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience." -- John Voelker (aka Robert Traver), Testament of a Fisherman


#8 vicente

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 01:53 PM

I use loon hard head for most things I use it as a head cement or to coat Flys that need a little extra protection, I also use it to glue the base of deer hair bugs. I use lock tight gel fly stuff in place when I'm tying it in or to make it more solid like dumbell eyes.
I do use uv goo on occasion not a necessity by any means but it is nice to have especially since I just tye at my coffee table and having to set up a drying rack would be a pain.

#9 whatfly

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:00 PM

Never really thought of it before, but it must indeed a daunting subject for the beginner. Flat Rock Native gave the best answer I think, for someone just learning. You might want to think about some Sally Hansen's Hard as Nails for heads and for light coatings, but what else you need really depends on what you tie. With so much to learn before you are likely to make use of the various other esoteric products out there, I'd recommend ignoring the topic until such time as you actually find the need. By the time you get there, I think the various merits of each type of glue might make more sense than trying to deal with this topic so early in your career.

#10 vicente

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 02:00 PM

Oh fletch tight is nice to have for gluing eyes on.

#11 Philly

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 03:05 PM

I've been using Krazy Glue for threads of on the warm water/salt water patterns I've been tying lately.  Being whip finished handicapped, I usually just make a couple of half hitches to finish off the thread heads.  A light coat of Krazy glue  holds them in place  On streamer flies I tend to add eyes, so the whole head gets coated with UV resin.  Bait fish patterns get the same UV coat back to and covering the eyes.  I picked up the UV product you see  on TV that solves all you mending problems at Home Depot.  It's got a fine tip applicator and I've been using it to hold the eyes in place till they get the heavier UV coating over them.

Might give it a shot on the thread heads of my trout flies when I start tying them.   For securing popper bodies to hooks I use either a gel super glue or Loc-Tite.  Gives me a bit of time to make sure the body it sitting right.  One thing I have been doing is putting a light coat of super glue on the hook shanks before starting to wrap the thread.  Not sure if it secures the thread any better than the normal way.  Don't seem to hurt.


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#12 vicente

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 05:53 PM

Philly I too was who finish challenged, I got one of the tmc whip finishers out of the half off bin at my local fly shop, just made a lot more sense to me. There are a couple different ones this is the same as mine http://m.fishwest.co...CFQKHaQodJeQFGA

#13 Chris_NH

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:00 PM

Truth be told the glues are a pretty big crutch.  Not talking about head cement over a whip finish, but using glues after or before putting on a material...  If you manage your thread state and tension properly you almost never need glue.  Glues just make things shiny.  A small amount can be helpful during the tying process, like keeping lead free wire in place or keeping squirrel tail hair down while you tie it in, but it's really not necessary for long term durability in flies generally.  If you get into the habit or tying without it you and your flies will be better off in the long run.



#14 phg

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 06:14 PM

I always glue my heads.  I generally use Fly-Tite head cement, a non-toxic cement that uses alcohol as a solvent.  It takes about 15 minutes to dry, so you have to factor that into your flytying.  You just have to have someplace to put the fly while the cement dries.

 

When I'm doing demonstration tying, I use thin UV epoxy (I've been using Silvercreek's epoxy lately.)  The advantage is that I can set the epoxy is seconds and give away the fly.  The only downside I've run into was one time when I was tying outdoors.  I found that the sun sets UV epoxy too....



#15 cphubert

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Posted 17 February 2017 - 07:48 PM

I use Minwax clear brushing lacquer clear gloss, buy it by the quart - economical, deep penetration, fast drying, good presentation can apply additional coats for high gloss heads. con's include lacquer fumes well ventilation area required. I always apply head cement - fresh or salt - helps with durability no one has ever said to me your fly's unravel, they may get chewed apart, they may rust, but they are well tied. Applied and stored in empty nail polish bottles one with a fine trimmed brush and one with a full size brush. Make flexible cement with thinned goo, to be honest I don't use a lot of it. Clear silicone RTV on split jungle cock nails for fishing flies. Foam flies - superglue or zap a gap. Have used UV but I do not like the smell and try to not use it, same with epoxy and don't care for the yellowing over time but would take UV over epoxy for cure time alone. My bottom line is if you are tying for someone else always use cement would consider leaving it off a pattern I am playing with.