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#31 mikechell

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:48 PM

Pompom ... I can't welcome you to the site.  Your first post is nothing but a negative statement.  A complaint about a company many people have had good experiences with.  You go so far as to slander said company with accusations of theft and "ripping people off".

 

So, until you've introduced yourself and shown that you're more than just mad at F.E. ... I'll save my "welcome".


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#32 Patriot

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:33 PM

Man 'o man!!!!  I just placed an order with FE today.  I'm sorry to read about all of the issues others are having or had with FE.  None of this is good.

 

I have ordered from FE in the past and he did deliver what I ordered and it came quickly, so I have I my fingers crossed.  He may be having some issues that we don't know about, but if so he should put a notice on the homepage of his website.

 

If and when my order arrives, I will post back with my results.



#33 Mogup

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 10:15 PM

Patriot you should revisit my msg to you. Too late though I'm afraid. Hope things work out.

#34 Patriot

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 11:08 PM

Patriot you should revisit my msg to you. Too late though I'm afraid. Hope things work out.

I haven't forgotten your comments. I think that either before or after we chatted, my Ultra Midge hackle packs arrived from FE.  I've since used some of these hackles and they were indeed perfect for my small flies.  So from that experience, I never had any reason to worry when I placed my order today.  

 

But, you know what's funny (to me anyway) about my order?  I needed some RED midge hackle.  Red!  I know, I know, ... I do hope you won't tell anyone about this.

 

Why red hackle?, you ask.  I'll explain. On page 69 of Vince Marinaro's "In The Ring Of The Rise", he describes a dry fly pattern he calls the "old Red Quill" dry fly.  It has a body of stripped peacock herl, the wings are pale starling feathers, the tail is red feather fibers and the hackle is "bright red cock hackle". 

 

He attributes this fly pattern to A. Courtney Williams (I'm not sure who that is) who noted that this is a very successful pattern for "bulging" or "tailing" fish.  

 

So, before I left for the San Juan River last week, I bought some rather poor red hackle from our local Sportsman's Warehouse and tied a single, "old Red Quill", just to humor myself.  (I made this fly without the starling wings because I do not have any. I think I substituted some hackle tips for wings.) 

 

I very rarely fish dry flies, but with this particular fly - and not to offend Vinny, I did as he instructed and fished it dry.  I goo-ed it up with "Gink" floatant, and tossed it out.  After a few casts the fly was ripped from the waters surface.  Upon inspection, the 6x tippet had been broken.  What I did was make a huge fool of myself.

 

To be honest, I was stunned when this happened because this was the last thing that I ever expected.  I just stood there like a statue (dummy?) for a minute or two. I think I felt that way because I never ever believed that this crazy fly would do a bit of good other than waste my time and some tippet material.  Man, was I wrong. 

 

Sorry, Vinny!

 

So, now you know why I'm loading up on red midge hackle.  If, and when, the red hackle arrives, I'm going to tie 100 "old Red Quills" and dedicate them all to Vincent Marinaro.  Hopefully, he'll forgive me for being a doubting thomas.  (doubting dumba$$, would probably be more appropriate. Ha!)



#35 redietz

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 05:43 AM

 

 

Why red hackle?, you ask.  I'll explain. On page 69 of Vince Marinaro's "In The Ring Of The Rise", he describes a dry fly pattern he calls the "old Red Quill" dry fly.  It has a body of stripped peacock herl, the wings are pale starling feathers, the tail is red feather fibers and the hackle is "bright red cock hackle". 

 

He attributes this fly pattern to A. Courtney Williams (I'm not sure who that is) who noted that this is a very successful pattern for "bulging" or "tailing" fish.  

 

 

Alfred Courtney Williams wrote the Dictionary of Trout Flies.  It was pretty much the standard reference in the mid-20th century for both English and American patterns. (He was English.) His father popularized the fly "William's Favorite" -- a wingless wet, still in use (as well as being the name of a great blog on the subject of soft hackles, spiders and flymphs.)

 

You should realize that "red" in reference to hackle has traditionally meant reddish brown, not scarlet. (Google "Rhode Island Red" for an example.)  I'm not saying that scarlet won't produce an effective fly, but I think what Vince Marinaro meant was what the Brits still call "red game", especially since he took the pattern from Williams, who I'm sure meant that color and not scarlet.

 

And just to bring this back on topic, I don't believe that bad mouthing vendors is an appropriate use of a forum.


Bob


#36 mikechell

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 06:44 AM

And just to bring this back on topic, I don't believe that bad mouthing vendors is an appropriate use of a forum.

Red ... I don't have a problem with complaints about vendors.  If you can't vent here, where can you?

If you're an established member, this is a venue to discuss and debate ANY topic related to this hobby.

 

I do have a problem with someone coming in here JUST to rant and rave.


Barbed hooks rule!

My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.

Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis

 


#37 Flat Rock native

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:52 AM

And just to bring this back on topic, I don't believe that bad mouthing vendors is an appropriate use of a forum.

Red ... I don't have a problem with complaints about vendors.  If you can't vent here, where can you?
If you're an established member, this is a venue to discuss and debate ANY topic related to this hobby.
 
I do have a problem with someone coming in here JUST to rant and rave.

The poster clearly defamed a business and failed to mention any first-hand information showing he was a victim. Pompom should remove the offending post or the admin needs to remove it for him. My two cents...

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#38 phg

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 08:27 AM

...and lock this thread.  It's been revived too many times. 



#39 mikechell

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:01 AM

FRn ... please send Steve an E-mail.  I am at work, and cannot access my home E-mail address or server.  I don't have Steve's E-mail address and he probably won't recognize my work one.  Please, let Steve know, and include PHG's recommendation.  Actually, you can just copy and paste this reply in an E-mail to him.

 

I wasn't going to do anything until Pompom replied ... if he ever does.

If he replied kindly, we could let his first "transgression" slip.  If he replied with the same vitriol ... I was going to recommend banning him.

 

He hasn't replied, so I am not so sure doing anything is necessary.  If FRn sends a message, we can let Steve decide the fate of Pompom and this thread.

 

Thank you.


Barbed hooks rule!

My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.

Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis

 


#40 Patriot

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:32 AM

Alfred Courtney Williams wrote the Dictionary of Trout Flies.  It was pretty much the standard reference in the mid-20th century for both English and American patterns. (He was English.) His father popularized the fly "William's Favorite" -- a wingless wet, still in use (as well as being the name of a great blog on the subject of soft hackles, spiders and flymphs.)

 

You should realize that "red" in reference to hackle has traditionally meant reddish brown, not scarlet. (Google "Rhode Island Red" for an example.)  I'm not saying that scarlet won't produce an effective fly, but I think what Vince Marinaro meant was what the Brits still call "red game", especially since he took the pattern from Williams, who I'm sure meant that color and not scarlet.

 

And just to bring this back on topic, I don't believe that bad mouthing vendors is an appropriate use of a forum.

 

 

Thank you very much for the history lesson. I find any historical information with regards to fly fishing very interesting.

 

When I noted Vince's comments about A. Courtney Williams's "old Red Quill", he also noted the following:

 

"In the variations that I have used I found that a dark mahaogany red hackle was a poor choice: bright red hackle is best, ..."

 

So from these comments I went ahead and purchased the brightest red hackle that FE had to offer.  The hackle and tail of the Red Quill fly pattern that I lost on the San Juan was indeed as red as the stripes on ol' Glory, but I'm always prepared to surmise that this hard strike could have just been a fluke.  I won't know the answer to that until I can get back up there to test this fly again myself or someone else does it for us.

 

Your comments are much appreciated.  Thanks!



#41 Flat Rock native

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 09:59 AM

FRn ... please send Steve an E-mail.  I am at work, and cannot access my home E-mail address or server.  I don't have Steve's E-mail address and he probably won't recognize my work one.  Please, let Steve know, and include PHG's recommendation.  Actually, you can just copy and paste this reply in an E-mail to him.
 
I wasn't going to do anything until Pompom replied ... if he ever does.
If he replied kindly, we could let his first "transgression" slip.  If he replied with the same vitriol ... I was going to recommend banning him.
 
He hasn't replied, so I am not so sure doing anything is necessary.  If FRn sends a message, we can let Steve decide the fate of Pompom and this thread.
 
Thank you.


Reports made, still hope OP acts to edit but if not......

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Buffalo, Wyoming

Established: Circa "Whenever you see anything I have, ... that you must buy!"

 


#42 xpman

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 10:10 AM

See this is why fly shops are closing to online ordering. There are those online business's who list everything but don't have everything in stock (this where they order items they don't have) so it takes longer to get and order, for the business is waiting to get the items it does not have in stock.

     This is why sometimes you get an order post haste and other times you have to wait along time. If the online shop would own up to this it might go better, but wait is this the same complaint about fly shops? (I go to the fly shop and they never have what I want)



#43 Mogup

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 06:40 PM

Patriot as others have mentioned I think the color red when dealing with old pattern dries refers to a fiery brown but I could be wrong and maybe you have stumbled onto the next latest craze. South American fire ant patterns !

#44 Gene L

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 06:55 PM

There ain't no scarlet red chickens.  I'm acquainted with game chickens and the red roosters are known in the game lexicon as "Brown red."  So the term is not always "red."  Dark brown would be dry fly Coachman Brown.  There are various shades of brown/red or red/brown but none I've seen are scarlet.



#45 Patriot

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 07:16 PM

Patriot as others have mentioned I think the color red when dealing with old pattern dries refers to a fiery brown but I could be wrong and maybe you have stumbled onto the next latest craze. South American fire ant patterns !

Yes, you could be correct about the color.  I did a bit of research on "old Red Quill dry fly" and a got everything except the pattern that Vince Marinaro described.  From some of what I read many seemed to claim that this fly pattern was developed by Art Flick.  I suppose that over time a lot changes.  

 

And, BTW, my FE order has not shipped.  I'm thinking the worst, but hoping for the best.

 

Thanks for your comments.  South American fire ant patterns, indeed.  Ha!