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Renzetti Traveler Vice Jaws Composition


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8 replies to this topic

#1 bellevue.chartreuse.trout

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 01:49 PM

I've had my Traveler for quite a while and replaced a pair of jaws once or twice.

 

I broke one set of jaws several years ago and looked at the cross-section of the damaged edge of the part. It looked like powdered metal to me.

 

Has anyone else noticed this? Are there different grades of jaw quality available? Is a machined steel jaw available?

 

BCT



#2 whatfly

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 02:19 PM

Cannot speak to the material nature of the jaws, but to the best of my knowledge all the Renzetti jaws are made of the same and there are no "stronger" versions, although the saltwater ones are beefier.  I too have worn out a pair but it did take a lot of flies to do so.  Suspect the best people to ask would be the vendor.  Presentation and Master jaws appear to be a bit more substantial than the Traveler, which is a travel vise by design to be fair, so an upgrade may be another answer.



#3 mikechell

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 03:23 PM

There are only a few ways to make a part from metal.

1)  Pour molten metal into a casting. (cast)  Cheap, strong parts, but brittle to side loading.

 

2)  Compress the metal into the shape you want. (forging)  Best, all around strength, but very expensive)

 

3)  Remove metal from a block shape. (milling and turning)  Waste metal has to be recycled.  Labor intensive, thus, expensive.

 

4)  Pressing with extreme pressures until the metal fuses. (sintering)  Very close to forged, but much lighter.  Small air pockets also make it better at retaining lubrication and losing heat.  Also very expensive in production pieces.  (Brake pads are usually sintered metal)

 

5)  Most recently ... printing.  (I don't fully understand how this is done, but I think the printed metal part has to be "baked" to weld it into a solid piece.)

 

Most metal pieces are cast, these days, no matter what the item is.  It's mechanically and monetarily more efficient.

 

The "powdered" look you're referring to, BCT, is what a cast metal part looks like.

 

If you know a metal worker, they might take on the challenge of making you a set of forged jaws.  (like the damascus steel ones I see on some of the pictures here.


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#4 Bugsy

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:15 PM

Ive seen examples of Traveler jaws breaking, and each time the fracture bisected the opening for the adjustment screw. The break may look like a casting, but Id guess what you see is just a brittle fracture in tempered tool steel.

Ive seen fractures in aluminum where the broken surface looked white and powdery. When the crack has enough time before fracturing through, the raw aluminum oxidizes.

#5 bellevue.chartreuse.trout

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 07:12 PM

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

BCT



#6 phg

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 03:40 PM

According to the Renzetti WEB site, the jaws of all their vises are made from case hardened steel, and oxide coated to prevent rust.  Hardened steel is more brittle than non-hardened, so that may be what you are seeing. 

 

Breaking jaws would suggest that you are over-tightening them.  On a cam-jaw vise, that shouldn't be a problem, but if you have the older screw-tightening jaws, as I do, you need to be a bit more careful.  Also, using larger hooks will require greater torque, so if you are frequently tying on size 2 hooks, you may want to find a vise with heavier jaws.



#7 Kudu

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 04:30 PM

I have a traveler vise. I replaced the jaws once due to an accidental breaking. Wasnt a big deal. They did not appear to be machined metal. My vise was knocked off the table by a house sitter. Call Renzetti. They will talk to you. I have a presentation vise by them that I like better than the Traveller.

#8 rstaight

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 04:42 PM

I have been in the metal working industry since 1977, before I even graduated high school. I have worked in several areas working with several types of materials. Even worked in the forging side of the industry for 20 years.

 

I seriously doubt any company would use vise jaws that are cast. Since castings are made of molten metal poured into a mold there has no grain structure and thus very little strength. Yes metals do have a grain structure when viewed under a microscope. It still needs heat treatment for wear and finish machining or grinding for final finish and size.

 

Forgings are stronger because you can direct the grain flow through the die design thus creating a much strong product. Again heat treating and machining is still required. It is just as expensive to design and build forging dies as it is casting dies and molds.

 

This brings us to machined jaws. If and a big if you start with cold rolled steel the grain structure will be some what aligned with the bar depending on how it was cut from the ingot at the mill.

 

Normal process is to machine the jaws to semi-finish state. Heat treat and finish machine. But every company has found processes that may allow them to "cheat" the physics involved. Have done it myself.

 

With case hardened jaws I would suspect they are making them out of a lower grade of steel. Which is fine, With case hardening you get a tougher core and still achieve the wear properties needed.

 

If the jaws are breaking they may be using a steel with a carbon content that allows through hardening or they messed up on the heat treat. Which seams strange since I have heard Renzetti is a machine shop.


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#9 bellevue.chartreuse.trout

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Posted 03 December 2017 - 04:43 PM

My breaking of the jaws was years ago. I've gotten replacement jaws since. I just remember that the appearance of the cross-section of the break looked rather granular. Thus I thought of 'powdered' ... cast parts instead of a machined piece.

 

I forget exactly what jaw broke, but since my original jaws were the screw type, it may have been those. I did replace it with a lever style though. I like those for the convenience of the quick action. I'd just think that a component cut out of a piece of hardened steel would have been tougher than a cast piece for sure. (and would pay for such a part if it was offered ... but Idoin't think it is from Renzetti).

 

 

BCT