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Dubbing Drubbing


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15 replies to this topic

#1 tmartin412

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 10:51 AM

My dry fly tying is abhorrent.  For dubbing I've tried numerous methods (dubbing wax, dubbing loops, less material, over wraps with bare thread, etc).  Every time I dub a body it looks like complete and utter garbage.  I do work better with some materials and it has me wondering if I just have low quality synthetic material.  I hate to blame the material but I do better with hares ear material and some crystal flash dubbing I just purchased.  

 

Any suggestions to tie a better dry fly or Youtube videos I should watch?  PS I do not have a hackle gauge but it is on my list next time I head to the shop.  

 

Thanks!



#2 Flat Rock native

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:02 AM

I am biased because I have had mutal business dealings with Al and Gretchen Beatty. The have a dubbing e-book just out on Amazon for about 5 bucks. Got my $$ worth in first 7 pages! Might be free with Amazon prime! They are true Experts!
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#3 JspFishing

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:52 AM

I'm a beginner and I've been there. The videos make it so easy...but not impossible. First I found out that synthetic dubbing is harder to work with than real hair. Although I never tied a dry fly I believe they use real hair so thats good. Secondly, use such a small amount, I mean small. You can always add more. When you apply it to your thread kind of spread it out a bit. When you spin it, pinch it and spin in *one* direction. You can lick your finger to spin a tighter noodle. Again, small amount, lick your finger and spin in one direction. Wrapping with a taper comes with practice bc it might have a spot with less dubbing so you might have to do a second wrap in one spot before moving. 

 

With synthetic dubbing, use 50% less than your small amount. I mean jus grab fibers. Once its in a noodle it looks like a lot more. Good luck bro and keep practicing. It gets better.

 

Joe



#4 rockworm

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 11:55 AM

Some material (rabbit, Superfine,...) is easier to dub than others (seal, goat,...)  There are numerous different techniques (touch dubbing, noodles, dubbing loops,...) but first and foremost you need to learn to handle the material. Its mostly a matter of practice, practice, practice. 

 

Most of the time I use this technique:

Stroke the thread with slightly dampened fingers (water- not wax)

Take a very small amount of dubbing and pull it gently out  to form a thin cylinder with tapered ends.

Apply to the thread, twisting/spinning it on from the top to the bottom. (Always twist in the same direction.)

 

The less dubbing you use, the easier it will be to shape the body as you wrap it. 



#5 Bimini15

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 12:55 PM

Time to bring it up again:

https://thelimpcobra...iques-tutorial/

EDIT: Apparently photobucket ate all the pics in the limp cobra tutorial. Shucks!
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#6 Poopdeck

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Posted 27 December 2017 - 08:18 PM

Use less dubbing. Use the hook as your hackle gauge. I have a gauge but with the variety of hooks out there I find it more accurate to use the hook after clamping it in.

#7 tjm

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 05:42 AM

Time to bring it up again:

https://thelimpcobra...iques-tutorial/

EDIT: Apparently photobucket ate all the pics in the limp cobra tutorial. Shucks!

If using Firefox this shows all the photobucket pics; https://addons.mozil...hotobucket-fix/



#8 tjm

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 06:01 AM

That is an excellent tutorial. 

I have used a turkey skewer to spin my dubbing noodles for many years, similar to https://www.amazon.c...=turkey skewers

She never missed it and the sharp end is a heavy duty bodkin. Just hang the bobbin smear a bit of fur on the thread, pass the thread through the loop of the skewer and back to hook, roll the skewer between fingers and use it to wrap the noodle on the hook.



#9 flytire

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 06:01 AM

the photobucket hotlink fix for chrome browser works to restore viewing of photobucket photos

 

https://chrome.googl...ealioapbifiaedg


Ignorance can be educated....

Crazy can be medicated....

But there's no cure for stupid


#10 SilverCreek

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Posted 28 December 2017 - 11:02 AM



My dry fly tying is abhorrent.  For dubbing I've tried numerous methods (dubbing wax, dubbing loops, less material, over wraps with bare thread, etc).  Every time I dub a body it looks like complete and utter garbage.  I do work better with some materials and it has me wondering if I just have low quality synthetic material.  I hate to blame the material but I do better with hares ear material and some crystal flash dubbing I just purchased.  

 

Any suggestions to tie a better dry fly or Youtube videos I should watch?  PS I do not have a hackle gauge but it is on my list next time I head to the shop.  

 

Thanks!

 

 

I wrote an tying "tip" that describes the "wax less" dubbing technique I use. It was published in Fly Tyer Magazine in 2002. I suggest you try this technique.

 

Here is the article:

 

Noted Wisconsin fly tyer Royce Dam - ( FFF's 1994 Buz Buszek Award Winner) taught me the single most helpful dubbing technique I have ever learned. It’s a technique for dubbing tight dry fly bodies without using dubbing wax. I’d like to pass it on. The directions are for a right-handed tyer. Lefties will need to make the reversal.

 

I am assuming that you wrap thread around the hook in the normal fashion by wrapping away from yourself over the top of the hook and then back underneath, and so on. Wrap the hook with thread, tie in a tail and take the tread back to the back of the hook so that you are ready to dub the body. Do not wax the thread.

 

For a right-hander, dub the fur clockwise on the thread as seen from the top of the hook. The clockwise direction is critical, as you will see later. Taper the dubbing so that you have a fine dubbing tip at the top of the thread. Unwrap one or two wraps of thread from the tie in point and push the dubbing up the thread so that the fine point of dubbing is at the tie in point. If you wax the thread, the dubbing will stick to the thread, and it will be difficult to advance it up the thread to the tie in point.

 

Take one or two wraps of thread to fix the tip of dubbing at the tie in point. This wrap traps the end of the dubbing so that is cannot spin free. Grasp the bottom end of the dubbing, and dub/twist it clockwise on the thread. It should spin around the thread getting tighter and tighter since the tip is fixed under the first wrap. Hold on to the bottom of the dubbing so that it cannot untwist and wrap your dubbing forward on the hook. With each wrap of the thread, the dubbing and thread will twist tighter and tighter so that you end up with a very tight, compact and tapered body.

 

The wax-less technique takes advantages of the fact that as you wind the dubbing around the hook shank, you introduce an additional twist into the dubbing. The dubbing twists one revolution for each wrap. The secret to forming a tightly dubbed body is to use this additional twisting to your advantage."

 

For nymphs allow the dubbing to untwist as you wrap to get just the amount of bugginess rather than a tight compact body.

 

You can precisely control the diameter of the dubbing as you wind. Without wax you can push the dubbing up the thread to widen the dubbing noodle or pull down to narrow the dubbing. Or you can twisting tighter if you used too much dubbing to narrow the body or allowing it to untwist to widen it. By using these two additional techniques you get exactly the tapered body you want.

 

 

 

 


Regards,

Silver

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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#11 tmartin412

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 03:49 PM

Good stuff here!  Will certainly check out the articles and pick up the eBook.  Happy New Year!



#12 Crackaig

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 07:23 PM

Dubbing, yes it can be the material. To test how a material dubs, take a pinch, tease it apart, roll it on your trouser leg. That will show you how it will perform. 

Hackle gauge. Why? You will need either a new gauge for each model of hook, or a massive stack of conversion charts. I can just imagine. Look up hook model  code, (MC), look up size of hook, (HS). Dry Fly Style code, (DFS). Hackle length = (MC + HS ) x (150 + DFS). 

                                                                                                                              100

Forget that bend the hackle and judge it against the hook. If you are going to size all the hackles off the skin, for production tying, then bang a nail into a piece of wood and mark off the sizes you want. Don't be fooled into parting with your hard earned for things you really do not need. Buy some more dubbing instead.

Cheers,

C.


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minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which
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by the clean end"


#13 Poopdeck

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Posted 01 January 2018 - 11:20 AM

Do you think someone who can't wrap dubbing is production tying and in need of a way to size hackle off the skin?

#14 flytire

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 08:09 AM

fuzzy math :)


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#15 Flat Rock native

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Posted 02 January 2018 - 10:08 AM

Do you think someone who can't wrap dubbing is production tying and in need of a way to size hackle off the skin?


Objection, your Honoriousness, compound question.

A valid concern although it could just be C, thinking ahead a few steps more than us. Happy New Year Craikage, Carry On, Y'all
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