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Houston, We Have A Problem

Small Clouser -Vicente

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31 replies to this topic

#1 breambuster

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 09:30 PM

I had a chance to try out a couple of my Clousers today and the blue one turned over but the Peacock did not. It came through the water white side up, peacock and hook point down. They both had about the same amount of material. The peacock one was one that I tied with a lot less material than my first attempt. What would have kept it from turning over? Does kip tail float? Does the location of the eyes on the hook shank make a difference? All the materials, including bead chain eyes except for the color of the back material, the blue and peacock. What do you think?

BB
Remember the 3 "R"s. Respect for self, Respect for others, and Responsibility for all your actions.

#2 mikechell

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 09:43 PM

Do you have the pictures of the two Clousers, that you can post here?  


Barbed hooks rule!
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#3 breambuster

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 09:14 PM

Actually, Mikechell, I lost the blue 1 that acted properly, but I still have the peacock 1 that didn’t turn over. I will check the others for another that does turn over and make pictures of those.
Remember the 3 "R"s. Respect for self, Respect for others, and Responsibility for all your actions.

#4 mikechell

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 09:29 PM

I'm just curious, BB.  I tried several ways to get a fly to ride hook point up.  As I went, I learned the main factor to "fight" is the weight of the hook bend to the point.   If you tie eyes that center on the hook shaft, then they don't really do anything to offset that weight.

What I found was that the materials tied on the hook point side of the shaft are all important. 

I tie my "Panfish Attractor"

Aug 2017 Panfish Attractors (1).JPG
with Raccoon tail, because I discovered it's the only natural fur that ALWAYS turns the fly hook point up.  Even with the bead chain eyes (no true counter weight), these flies don't turn over.
Of course, they're smaller that Clousers, so I don't know what they equivalent material would be for you ... but I believe that's why bucktail works well.

Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#5 DarrellP

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 10:27 PM

Clouser said the Bucktail wing makes it turn over. The eyes should be 1/3back. Post the peakock one, if you can, please.
"Calling fishing a hobby is like calling brain surgery a job." John Geirach

#6 vicente

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Posted 17 February 2019 - 11:28 PM

I think it's likely the kip tail, I've had the same experience with bucktail, it doesn't take much since the flash and slinky doesn't float. If you have some faux fur try using that.

#7 Philly

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 01:08 PM

I'm not sure it's the type of material causing the problem.   Two possibilities.   Not enough weight in the dumbbell eyes, too much material on the the top of the hook shank.  As already mentioned the eyes should be 1/3 of the length of the shank from the hook eye.   It's what makes the Clouser minnow a Clouser minnow instead of a buck tail jig.   As Bob Clouser pointed out to me when I showed him my Clousers when he was doing a tying demonstration/presentation at one of fly fishing clubs,  I was tying a nice buck tail jig.  His suggestion was to start measuring the length of the hook shank.  For example if the hook shank was 30 mm long.  The eyes are placed 10 mm from the hook eye and wrapped in place.  The buck tail on the top of the shank is wrapped to just before the eye, move thread behind the eye, pull the buck tail over the eye, then wrap it down to the 20 mm point on the hook.  It's not wrapped to the bend like you often see.  The flash and the buck tail are wrapped to just before the eye.  I've been tying them long enough that I can do pretty good estimate of where the eyes should be.  Still I will measure just to be sure they're where they should be.  This is a pretty good example of what a "properly"  tied Clouser minnow  should look like.  Since I use clear polyester thread to tie mine, it's tough to see the wraps on the top of the hook.  Picture isn't that great either.

 

094.JPG


"All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia."

#8 breambuster

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 01:42 PM

Vicente, I’m going to have to order some. Does FTD have it? Do they call it faux fur, or do they have a different name for it? Would binding down the kip tail, like someone said you have to do if it’s a true Clouser, make any difference?
Remember the 3 "R"s. Respect for self, Respect for others, and Responsibility for all your actions.

#9 SilverCreek

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 01:48 PM

I thought this post about a problem was going to be about the missing "Y" and "X" s in all the posts


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Silver

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#10 vicente

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 02:45 PM

I don't think ftd has it, you can pick some up at Michael's or hobby lobby, it's a bit shorter than the stuff the fly tying stores sell. Sandfly I believe has some that he sells from his shop that's nice. I might have some extra short white I can send you

#11 tjm

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Posted 18 February 2019 - 04:02 PM

I think I agree with Philly. It's hard to say without a picture, but my first thought was too much "belly hair".  That is a very sparse fly by design, and my early attempts were severely over dressed. 



#12 breambuster

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 01:10 AM

Ok, really busy here the last few days. But here's a picture of the fly that didn't turn over. 

 

The white hair is kip tail, the peacock is "Flash N Slinky." 

 

Remember that this isn't meant to be a "True" Clouser, but a Variant. Vicente says he has caught lots of Bluegills on it and that's what I'm trying to do. If you want to call it a Flash N Slinky jig, that's fine with me. 

 

BB

 

 

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Remember the 3 "R"s. Respect for self, Respect for others, and Responsibility for all your actions.

#13 vicente

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 02:21 AM

Might just be too much on the bottom, compared to the top I'd use a little less white and a little more peacock.

#14 mikechell

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 07:25 AM

Panfish attractor.jpg
You can see that all of my material is on "hook point side" of the shaft.  This allows the drag/flotation of the material to offset the weight of the hook point.  (by "drag", I mean resistance to water flow as the fly sinks)
 
Yours won't do that.
 

post-747-0-75806300-1550556371.jpg


Barbed hooks rule!
My definition of work: Doing something in which effort exceeds gain.
Ex-Marine ... quondam fidelis
 


#15 Philly

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Posted 19 February 2019 - 10:28 AM

That's pretty close to a Clouser.  It looks like you're tying it on a fairly heavy hook.  If the bead chain eyes aren't heavy enough the hook won't turn over.   I agree with Vicente, a little too much of the white.  I would try and thin the kip tail down to match the thickness of the peacock material.  


"All things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia."