[Alex C.]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each one?

[mcfly]

I think of full sink for really deep water like lakes and such and sink tip for large pools or deep runs where a full sink would snag up. Where I fish its rare that I need a sinking line. I usually just add length to the leader and a little weight.

[Alex C.]

So what depth does a sink tip start to have limitations?

[cornmuse]

Boy, oh boy. This is a big topic. Since I'm sitting at work in this miserable gray building on what certainly is the finest day so far of 2005, and I'm pissed off about it , I'll write my thoughts instead of doing my work. That'll show 'em

First let's discuss the various sinking lines. There is more to this than sinking tip or full sinker. Under sinking tips you MUST break down the lines into sinking heads (24' or more of sinking head), sinking tips (10' to 15' of sink), mini-tips (typically 5 or 6' that sink). As I work through this I'll forget about ghost tips and slow sink tips as they are highly specialized. IMHO, all sinking tip lines should be of the fast sinking variety.

Under full sinking lines let's define the category as consisting of three or more sinking rates and either density compensated or not.

Sinking tips (all varieties) are best suited for moving water applications. The floating running line allows mending and makes line handling easier when you're not using a shooting basket (a necessity for full sinker use when wading). The full sinking head is an ideal beast for swinging large streamers across current and getting down as deep as possible. I like the Teeny lines but there are many varieties avaible from most manufacturers. These lines are typically rated in grain weight and will invariably overline a rod. 200 grains is about right for a fast 6 or 7 weight rod - and thats easily a full line weight over what is specified.

A full head can be a miserable thing to cast, but it will get down fast. No problems hitting bottom in 6 feet in a fast flow. Keep the leader short and you can do amazing things with a streamer. An important tool for any big river fly fisher. I also use my Teeny lines for high-stick nymph fishing in very deep runs. Using an 18" leader I can walk my fly along the bottom in 10' of water. This is a good technique under cold-water conditions.

The sink-tip is my go-to creek and river line. I fish a 6wt most often and a type 5
sinking rate. A 10' tip is a relative joy to cast (no hinging because you typically have lot's of overhang) and will get down just fine. On fast water (fast being relative, I'm in Ohio so my definition of fast is a far cry from an Oregon steelheader's idea of fast) I can effectively fish to 6' or so. Mending is easy and I get a good swing with streamers. This line is also a good high-sticking line for water up to about 6' - deeper if its really slow. I don't think any self-respecting smallmouth fisherman should leave home without a sink-tip.

Mini-tips are generally a nice diversion. They will get a fly a foot or two below the surface and IMO work best under warm water conditions in late summer when I want to quickly retrieve a fly under the surface. I'll also use a mini-tip with a Dahlberg diver for a great action. A cool tool to have, but entirely optional. I can't honestly say that there aren't any fish I've caught with a mini-tip that I would otherwise have missed with a different tool. You could easily substitute a sinking leader for a mini-tip and get the same results. The biggest drawback is that most tapered lines are tapered too much in the front to turn over a sinking leader - if you cut back 10" of your fly line you'll have a better match and eliminate a lot of hinging. I do this as a matter of course on all new bass bug lines.

Full sinking lines are difficult to control when wading. The running line sinks at your feet so you need a shooting basket. They work nicely from a boat, however. Sinking lines cast nicely - small diameter and all the same material means you get good line speed. No problems banging out 70 footers all day. A fast type 5 or 6 full sinker is a great lake line and works well on really large rivers from a boat. You can fish an insect imitation, crawl a crayfish or swim a streamer with equal aplomb. Very important tool for still water fly fishing.

A good lake technique is to use a floating fly with a full sinking line. The fly hovers over the bottom. I do this with Dahlberg divers (rabbit strip tail) for largemouth to great effect. You can also use a full sinker in shallow water with a floating fly - when retrieved the fly will dive all the way to the bottom and then slowly resurface upon the pause. Another good bass technique that I use with cork head sneaky pete flies. A sinking tip doesn't work as well for this kind of fishing because the tip will ride up on retrieve following the running line. You'll only fish the bottom for about 1/3 of your actual retrieve.

A slow sinking density compensated line like a type 2 or 3 is also a good stillwater tool. I use this with marabou baitfish patterns for fishing crappie, perch, carp and bass when they key on shad. If the school of shad is at 15' over 20' of water I can count down my fly and retrieve very slowly without the fly sinking or rising on retrieve. A killer technique when the conditions call for it.

There you have it. Sink tip for moving water, full sinkers for lakes. Long heads for big rivers and long casts over deep water, short tips for fishing creeks. Fast full sinkers for most stillwater applications, slow sinkers for more specialized work.

I've got to ignore some more work now

Tight lines!

Joe C.

[Alex C.]

thanks cornmouse

[cornmuse]

[Alex C.]

sorry my bad So what sink rate would you reccomend for fishing lakes averaging 5-20 in depth, fishing crayfish type flies and streamers? What sink tip length would you reccomend for fishing michigan sized rivers?

[steeldrifter]

Skunked What I use and would suggest for here in Michigan is a FS with about a 8 IPS rate. Then for the sink tip I'm guessing your wanting it for steelies so what I use is a Tenny T-200 line. Works perfect for me on the MI rivers.

[steeldrifter]

BTW Joe, or should I say Cornmouse .....That was a awesome description of lines!

[Alex C.]

Thanks SD.

Even now when I look at your name CM cornmouse is what I see at first

I apologize if it sticks

[mcfly]

I said all that, you have to read between the lines a bit. cornmouse!

[Joe Hard]

[cornmuse]

[cornmuse]