Steve P.

Hi, Sorry if this has been discussed. I posted a similar question on Beginner's Corner but wondered what the experts say. The appearance of the fly head makes a big difference in how a fly looks. When you are trying to make a nice looking head, do you have a consistent system for thread wraps and for head cement - for example, once the head profile is right, do you wrap the entire head with thread that has been untwisted, closely spaced wraps, then whip finish with the final 4 wraps ending at the hook eye, then 2 coats of SHHAN or Loon hard head or something else to that effect? Is it better to do a whip finish at the hook eye or on the back end of the head? Presumably all of this makes little difference for small flies - I am interested primarily in size 2 to 8 clouser type flies (and I realize that for "fishing" flies as opposed to display flies, anything goes. Thanks alot! Steve P.

Hi all, Thanks to all for your responses to a poorly-defined question. Regarding fishing vs display flies, I am referring to the best looking display flies - after all, almost anything goes on fishing flies. Regarding small vs big (clouser) flies, I suppose I'm really talking about the bigger flies, where you can really see the difference... Really, to get down to it, let's assume that the head profile is already the way you want it. Now you need to finish it with thread and cement in a way that makes it look incredibly professional. Joe Hard presented an answer that included this - thanks for that - I liked the burnishing idea, never thought of that. Just for more background/ideas, one tier visiting our club showed that he wrapped the head with closely aligned thread wraps till he got the shape he wanted. Then, he backed off 3 or 4 wraps, so that he could fill in that space with the final whip finish. Another tier mentioned that he always does the final whip finish so that the wraps are closely aligned and end at the hook eye... Anybody else (maybe a pro like Al Beatty) have a good way to produce a finished incredible looking head? I have always wondered about this. Thanks again for the answers! Steve P.

Hi all, Voting for the best flies yesterday reminded me that a crucial part of making a fly look good is in making a nice head - thread has to be flat, profile smooth, and finish nice looking. Anybody out there have a "system" for repeatedly making good heads - I'm talking about specifics: for example, do you build up the profile you like, then flatten the thread and make close wraps starting at hook eye, go to body, then back to eye, then do a whip finish, then 2 coats of SHHAN or what? The heads really made a big difference in my voting - big impact on overall appearance... Thanks for any help... Steve P.

Hi all, Thanks for the pros and cons on kits and the tips on materials. You've convinced to build on what I have and not get a kit but here are a few more thoughts, and some findings, on kits... It seems to me, as a newbie to trout flies, that it would be very useful to design a "kit" around a minimal number of flies that clearly demonstrate the most important tying techniques needed for tying trout flies. The aim would be to teach as much as possible while minimizing the number of materials required. Then the kit could contain high quality materials without breaking the bank! Yesterday, I located a materials-only kit for the 15 Morris flies on the web that sells for approx $150 - this presumably contains high quality materials but $150 is a pretty stiff price for a beginner just dipping a toe in the water! Another alternative out there in "kit" form, is the "Tie A Fly" series by Henley- each kit contains info and enough materials, presumably high quality, for a dozen copies of 1 fly, all for about $16. Perhaps 5 of these kits would give a newbie a good start in fly tying techniques - for about $80. This is getting into the "reasonable" ballpark for someone just starting out but it seems like someone could make an even more affordable high quality kit than this if they kept tight focus on the goal of teaching the important techniques - dubbing, hackling, thread control, head finishing, wing types... Thanks again, Steve P.

Skunkaroo, Thanks for the lengthy, very informative reply! A quick followup question if you don't mind. I have a 12 pack of Hareline Dubbin (DUB5 - think it's 100% rabbit hair) and Antron in nice colors. Will both of these work equally well for drys and nymphs, and will these be good for these patterns? Do you suggest also purchasing hare's ear dubbing in a variety of colors. Also, do "hen saddle" "feathers" and "hackles" come as necks or packs or ? Thanks again, Steve P.

Hi all, You've talked me into not buying a materials kit to reproduce the fly patterns in Morris' fly tying book. So here are the materials lists for the 15 flies that appear in Skip Morris' book Fly Tying Clear and Simple. I have the hooks, and the threads are easy. Also I have a nice brown dry fly neck and a half and half grizzly and dun neck. And I've got plenty of tools... I'd really appreciate your input on how to most efficiently order the remaining dubbing, fur, hair and various feathers in various colors that appear in the materials lists below without breaking the bank. I only intend to tie 4-6 of each pattern for this go-round, and I'd like to stay close to the recipes in Morris' book - I can improvise later when I'm no longer a beginner... It's funny that there is such a large variety of materials in a beginner's book - a beginner does not usually have any materials and has to go out and purchase these one by one... Or substitute other materials - but a beginner does not know what can substitute for what... Thanks alot! Steve P. ================== Fifteen Patterns in Morris' fly tying book: 1. Rick's Caddis thread: brown, 8/0 or 6/0 weight: no. 1 lead for size 16 or smaller abdomen: bright green natural or synthetic fur thorax: brown natural or synthetic fur 2. White and Grizzly Wooly Bugger thread: white 6/0 or 8/0 for size 10 and down tail: white marabou hackle: grizzly body: white chenille, med. size for sizes 8 and down 3. Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear thread: black 6/0 or 8/0 weight: no. 1 lead for size 16 or smaller tail: guard hairs from hare's mask rib: fine oval gold tinsel abdomen: hare's mask wing case: brown mottled turkey-quill section thorax: hare's mask 4. Morristone thread: dark 8/0, 6/0 or 3/0 tail: brown, mottled hen-saddle tip with center removed abdomen and thorax: dark gray Antron yarn rib: brown V-rib wing case: pheasant tail fibers legs: brown mottled hen saddle feather (same as for tail) head: dark brown dubbing 5. Pheasant Tail thread: brown 8/0 or 6/0 tail: pheasant tail fibers abdomen: pheasant tail fibers rib: small copper wire thorax: peacock herl wing case and legs: pheasant tail fibers 6. Skip Nymph Dark thread: black or brown 8/0 or 6/0 ribbing: small copper wire abdomen and thorax: fur from a dyed brown hare's mask tails and wing case: pheasant tail fibers weight: copper or lead wire 7. Mickey Finn thread: black 6/0 or 8/0 rib: oval silver tinsel body: flat silver tinsel wing: yellow and red bucktail 8. Black Ghost thread: black 8/0 or 6/0 tail: yellow hackle fibers rib: medium-fine flat silver tinsel body: black floss throat: yellow hackle fibers wing: four white hackles cheek: optional jungle cock eyes or substitute 9. Partridge and Yellow Soft Hackle thread: yellow or pale 8/0 or 6/0 abdomen: yellow single-strand floss thorax: hare's mask fur (thorax optional) hackle: brown hen saddle hackle or partridge flank 10. Adams thread: black 8/0 or 6/0 wings: grizzly hen-saddle tips tail: grizzly and brown hackle fibers body: dubbed muskrat fur hackle: brown and grizzly 11. Gray Wulff thread: black 8/0 or 6/0 wings and tail: brown bucktail (or calf tail) body: gray dubbing (or yarn) hackle: blue dun 12. Elk Hair Caddis thread: tan 3/0 rib: fine gold wire body: hare's mask dubbing hackle: brown wing: bleached elk hair 13. Comparadun (March Brown) thread: tan 8/0 or 6/0 wing: brown natural coastal deer hair tail: brown hackle fibers abdomen and thorax: tan dubbing 14. Light Cahill Parachute thread: tan 8/0 or 6/0 wing: white calf tail tail: ginger hackle fibers hackle: ginger body: badger underfur 15. Griffith's Gnat thread: olive, gray or black 8/0 hackle: grizzly dry fly hackle body: peacock herl ----end---------

Sam, Thanks for the info! I should have explained that I have been fly tying for about 3 years - but inshore and surf patterns, not much in the way of trout. I've got the basic (and some not so basic) tools. The downside of buying materials individually, that I'd like to avoid for now, is that you end up with enough materials to tie dozens of flies and, for 73 materials, you're talking 100s of bucks! I'd just like to sit down with a kit of OK materials and do some learning of basic patterns and techniques - later, when I've figured out which patterns I like, I certainly plan on filling the part of my garage not already taken by saltwater materials with trout stuff! Thanks alot! Steve P.

Hi all, This is my 1st post, so forgive me is this has been asked recently. I would like to buy a kit of fly tying materials that would allow me to tie 10-20 standard trout patterns. It would be best if it corresponded to a book like Skip Morris' Fly Tying Clear and Simple. Even though this is a simple book, the book description says that 73 materials !!! are used in the described patterns! So, if I went out to buy the materials individually to reproduce the flies in the book exactly, I'd be at it quite a while - not what I want to do at this stage! (There are also 27 tools used or described in the Morris book but I have the most important ones of those already.) Can anyone recommend such a kit? Thanks alot! Steve P.