Gene L 0 Report post Posted July 24, 2022 I don't mean like Medieval fly tying, something more modern like in the 20th century. Does anyone have any references where I can read up on procedures in the not so distant past? Like the evolution of fly tying vises, for example. Or the origin of the bobbin. (holder). I would like to see any sites that have information for those of us who can't tie that well, hence we read about those who can. My interest was stimulated when I saw a reference on a site by a guy who collects fly tying equipment. He was enthusiastic when he found a C clamp for a Thompson vise* that had a provision for holding the working section of the thread. Prior to the bobbin holder. It had a round rubber gasket (for want of a better word) affixed on the C clamp so you could put a half hitch on your tie and keep some tension on the thread instead of it being loose and going elsewhere. I'd be grateful if anyone has any recommendations. *I assume it was for and made for a Thompson A vise and made by the Thompson company, which may have been stated. Not a whole lot of choices before 1950 on fly tying gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WWKimba 0 Report post Posted July 25, 2022 The rubber gasket (or sometimes referred to as a rubber button) was a way to keep your tying thread taught BUT you did not 1/2 hitch the thread. You just slipped it under the rubber and the thread would "lock" into place. You simply pulled it back out to continue your tie. This method of tying was used by Helen Shaw and featured in her book entitled simply Fly-Tying. It is still a wonderful book on handling materials AND this book contains NO fly patterns in it! I would suggest some other older fly tying books because they are LOADED with older patterns as well as older techniques and tools. Another great source would be a fly tying/fly fishing museum. I'm lucky enough to be within a short distance of 3 museums - Catskill Fly Fishing Museum (NY), The American Museum of Fly Fishing (VT), and the Pennsylvania Fly Fishing Museum (PA). And I am aware of similar museums in the states of Montana, Maine, Michigan and North Carolina. For Example, the Catskill museum includes the actual tying desks -as is - for a few famous tyers - materials, books, vices, desks, chairs and all! I hope this helps give you a start on your tour of the history of this fine hobby! Kim Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Bob LeMay 0 Report post Posted July 25, 2022 One of the first folks who gave me some pointers in saltwater tying was Harry Friedman, then at the end of his years, living in Miami Beach.... My very first bonefish on fly (nearly 50 years ago now) was caught on a fly he showed me how to tie. Being very old school, many of his patterns were pretty exotic and larger than what's in common use today. I believe he was one of the founding members of the Miami Beach Rod and Reel Club (long gone today...) and his proudest catch was a 72 lb tarpon on fly. I wasn't very impressed until he explained that back then under club rules he was using a 12lb tippet - oh, and by the way - they didn't think a bite tippet (shock tippet) was sporting so they weren't allowed to use one if entering a club competition.. He also pointed out that many very early bonefish patterns were actually derived from steelhead patterns... I wasn't until after he passed away that I got a look at one of Joe Brooks early books on fly fishing in saltwater (Brooks was the guy who first popularized using a fly rod in the salt shortly after WWII...). Among the illustrations in that book were photos of Joe and his fishing partners - one of them was a much younger Harry Friedman - all those years ago... Guys like Harry that gave me a running start in learning to tie and fish with flies in saltwater... are one of the reasons that I've tried to pass along what little I've learned about our sport - to anyone that will listen... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chugbug27 0 Report post Posted July 25, 2022 I'd be interested too... Darrel Martin has a book in 2016 that includes a neat history (with step-by-steps) of the more medieval tying methods, Fly Fisher's Craft. $2 for the ebook on Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01BUE673S/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr= Herter put out a book in the 40's that addresses in depth all the then-current equipment and methods, with a little history mixed into a lot of opinion. Free: https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.$b68572 McClelland wrote a treatise on then-current equipment and methods in 1899. Also free: https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc1.$b259210 I never read Helen Shaw's book but it's also on Kindle as an ebook for $2 https://www.amazon.com/Fly-Tying-Essential-Guide-Greatest-Instructors-ebook/dp/B00J75IRYU/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=31TVZM1J3D2ZK&keywords=fly+tying+an+essential+guide&qid=1658755518&sprefix=fly+tying+an+essential+guide%2Caps%2C122&sr=8-1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted July 25, 2022 This is the 2003 paperback edition of "The Fly" which was previously published in 2001 as a limited edition hardback. It was published by The Medlar Press Limited, The Grange, Ellesmere, Shropshire. Chapter illustrations are by Paul Cook. It traces the history & development of fly fishing, fly tying & tackle making from the evidence of its earliest beginnings to the 21st century. The author, a former surgeon and now GP has written several books on fly fishing and maintains a site for anglers, "fishingmuseum.org.uk." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chugbug27 0 Report post Posted July 25, 2022 Thanks @flytire! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene L 0 Report post Posted July 26, 2022 I read the one suggested by Chugbug. My impression is Thank God for where we are today. I wonder where we will be 50 years from now. I would think that flies back then were less expendable than they are today. Today's flies are less imitative than they wanted them back then, IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
utyer 0 Report post Posted July 26, 2022 When I first found a box of fly tying equipment in the basement, there was a Thompson post with a rubber button for holding the thread. I started tying my first flies without a bobbin. I still have flies with prices on the cards a low as 29 cents, and boxes of 100 Mustad hooks sold for under $3.00. When I got really serious in the fall of 65, I got a bobbin, but kept tying on the old Thompson vise. My nephew still has it, and it still works fine. In those days, flies were prices from 40 to 69 Cents. I do have a copy of the George Herter book, but its a 21st addition from 1973. I found much of the information dubious at best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chugbug27 0 Report post Posted July 26, 2022 Took a look at the Fly website. British exclusively... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene L 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2022 Today, I got my copy of Helen Shaw's Fly Tying. I got it used for $5, It was advertised as "Good" with perhaps notations in the margin and spine may be a little loose. So I was prepared for that. What arrived was a new book that probably had never been opened. Cost on the cover was $26. Interesting book so far. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaydub 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2022 The Founding Flies by Mike Valla is an intersting book. It is not so much about tools and techniques, if that is what your after. It is a history of American fly tying with chapters on 43 prominent fly tyers and thier contributions, from Mary Orvis Marbury and Thadeus Norris to the more recent Andre Puyans and Cal Bird. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene L 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2022 I'm not interested in 2022 tools or techniques as I'm pretty up to date on those. I like the history and books about the history of techniques. Fly Tying is all about 1970s methods, although they're dated if looked at in modern terms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
utyer 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2022 If the 1970s is your idea of History, look into the books I already mentioned. Then look for a copy of Quill Gordon by John McDonald from 1973. Plenty of history in that book. I don't consider that OLD, I was tying flies in the mid 1950s. Stopped for a while and have been tying consistently since 1965. I guess that makes me a part of history, but then we all are or soon will be. Many of my first tools, supplies, and materials came from Herters catalogs, and they were one of the big mail order vendors up until the late 1960s. This history of fly fishing in America web page might be a good place to start looking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moshup 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2022 16 hours ago, Gene L said: Today, I got my copy of Helen Shaw's Fly Tying. I got it used for $5, It was advertised as "Good" with perhaps notations in the margin and spine may be a little loose. So I was prepared for that. What arrived was a new book that probably had never been opened. Cost on the cover was $26. Interesting book so far. I was self taught back in the day and there wasn’t much teaching material available in my neck of the woods. Helen Shaw’s book was a great help at the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene L 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2022 17 hours ago, utyer said: If the 1970s is your idea of History, look into the books I already mentioned. Then look for a copy of Quill Gordon by John McDonald from 1973. Plenty of history in that book. I don't consider that OLD, I was tying flies in the mid 1950s. Stopped for a while and have been tying consistently since 1965. I guess that makes me a part of history, but then we all are or soon will be. Many of my first tools, supplies, and materials came from Herters catalogs, and they were one of the big mail order vendors up until the late 1960s. This history of fly fishing in America web page might be a good place to start looking. Matt Oneal has questions about 1950s thru 1970s on fly tying methods back then. He has a youtube site, "Savage Flies". His question basically is how many feathers did it take on average to hackle a dry fly. I assume all the necks were Indian. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites