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Jig hook/turned down eye myth?

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Interesting -- I almost never fish nymphs, but I often weight my streamer hooks with dumbbell eyes mounted on top of the hook shank, with the intention of making them swim "upside-down" (hook point up) on the retrieve. I've also noticed a big uptick in the popularity of jig hooks for streamers over the last few years. I wonder if streamer hooks behave the same way as the nymph hooks in the article did. 

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My understanding is the hook eye orientation and weighted components play the biggest roles and the fly will orient whichever way makes the center of mass below the tie in point. Though, I'd imagine an unweighted nymph is going to be getting thrown around a bit if there's enough current rather than hanging upside down the entire drift. Some tie their streamers with lead eyes on the bottom side of the hook shank or only put weighted wire on the bottom to keep their streamers riding hook point down. 

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I took from the link you don’t have to have the “jig” hooks to tie Perdigon type flies the turned down eye with a bead does the same thing.   And our traditional bead heads are tracking upside down. 😳Streamers w/o bead swim hook down. 

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I can make any fly (and here we're talking a bit bigger bugs than freshwater types use... ) ride point up or point down -depending on what side of the hook shank the materials are on... Mostly I'll use a "neutral bias" with a fairly even distribution of materials on both sides of the hook - this allows the fly to ride hookpoint down - but if chosen where you place your materials is everything...   I do often have some sort of weight up at or near the hookeye but all that does is determine the attitude of the fly and whether each time you pause while stripping the fly to impart motion.. the fly tips down towards the front.... Here's a few illustrations.... 

o2tBd7w.jpg

Flip Pallot's Prince of Tides (my version) - this bendback rides point up , suspends well and stays horizontal as it settles 

H1oZMwC.jpg

the Big Eye Bendback - same orientation as the first pattern.  I can and often will add 1/2" of .040 square lead wire to the hook shank  for my first step before doing the body - then the rest of the pattern, as a keel if I'm wanting the fly to sink faster - but it will still sink at a level attitude...  The"clouser style" of patterns (and there are numerous variations is another example of the hook riding point up - as long as you deliberately keep the winging materials on the point side of the hook - no matter whether you're using lead eyes or beadchain eyes -  no matter what size they are...  Add a wire weedguard to a clouser style fly and you can work one through most snags without getting stuck.. 

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A Whitewater clouser variant w/ wire weedguard - it will always ride point up as you work it once you've made your cast... 

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The Silhouette - with its heavy hook, and even distribution of materials - it will always ride point down... .

 

It also needs to be noted that unlike freshwater patterns almost everything we do for the salt involves patterns meant to be worked instead of drifted... 

 

 

 

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I think this is for a particular type of fly fishing which is fishing a nymph under an indicator.  I don't use indicators and I fish a lot of small clear streams where I can see my nymph and I've never noticed one riding hook point up, weighted or unweighted.  The drag on the line doesn't appear to allow the hook to flip so the point is riding up.  I don't use down-eyed hooks for my nymphs, so that may have an impact.  The other thing I noticed is the flies he's using are tied in the round,  so it doesn't really matter how the hook rides.  The profile is the same whatever position the hook point takes.  

  I know jig hooks are a hot item these days, but they're not going to perform the same way an actual jig would.  Most times we just slide a bead on and it ends up against the vertical shank.  The hole in the bead is centered, so it's weight is evenly distributed.  If you look at jigs, which I use when I want to tie a jig fly.  The weight is in front of the vertical shank and below the hook shank.

DSCF1213.JPG.9fef6c0082efeb51478694b07382e076.JPG

DSCF1212.JPG.57a0193799f0e54bac9bb7c2cd7a1095.JPG

The "balanced" fly attempts to duplicate this by placing the bead in front of the vertical shank, but as far as I can tell, the bead's purpose is to off-set the weight of the material, so the fly sits horizontally below a "strike indicator".  The only we can come close to tying a fly that will imitate jig action is using dumbbell eyes tied on the bottom of the shank close to the vertical shank on a jig hook.  You can do that with a straight shank hook.

DSCF1217.JPG

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You can also tie weight forward jigs,i was doing this before i ever heard of a balanced leech.I tie many styles this way but mostly for my non fly fishing fam and friends as they fish well below a flpat and can give some erratic action retrieved in jerks/pauses.Under a float the stay horizontal and point up(less snags) .They really shine on windy days with waves as the float inparts a nice jigging action.Or that can be twitched.I tie these on barbed jig hooks so they can be tipped with bait.Mosyt of my fly rod versions are barbless as unhooking fish is easier and sometimes in the wind,unhooking my self.The salt flies are great Capt and very nice jigs Philly.I have yet to fish with an indicator but am going to try out the yarn versions.The plastic balls are bobbers and i would just use my UL spinning rods for that type of presentation.Would cast better and much farther IMO.

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All the pictures I saw in that article are a fly just hanging in water. (I didn't go through the whole thing, as I don't tie those kinds of flies.)  We all know that the flies react/ride/run differently when moving through the water.

On the other hand, if the fish are hitting one style more than another ... there's something they like better.  If a jig hook gives that edge, who really cares if it does exactly what we think it should?

 

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I once read an article by Fox Statler, an Arkansas fishing guide, who showed how a nymph could be made to ride side up or down depending on how you tied it on. He used a loop knot that went through the eye of the hook and then wrapped around the eye in a specific orientation (difficult to explain).  Maybe someone can dig up that article with photos as I'm having difficulty finding it but the photo below gives somewhat the idea for it. Fox was an outstanding fisherman known for his sow bug and scud patterns but sometimes his strong opinions were difficult to discern from the facts.  

 

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Remember the ole Turle knot and improved vesion.  The line comes straight out the turned down eye.   Makes winged wets run hook down…

 

 

 

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I have been using the little clips you tie on your tippet to just snap the fly on.So far they seem very strong and allows the fly to move a little more freely.They are a pain tho to get small,12 - 14 hooks on as they tiny and hooks with small eyes  is like threading a needle.But the subsurface flies seem to have more action.I have some bigger sizes i will try on bass bugs this summer ,i believe they will be strong enough or hope so.There are all sorts of knots that we use for spinning gear and jigs.I cant recall the one that keeps a standard ball head jig horizonal for fishing deep below a slip float and it does matter.I have been pouring jig heads in 100th 80th 64th 32nd 16 th on pin head type shafts instead of the hooks.Then i dip them in cheapo nail polish.I then tie them below the jig tie in with the lead head forward.The shafts are from the craft store and have a flat pin head on a 2" aluminum shaft and come in a few colors.Easir to deal with than regular steel straight pins.I also use tung beads ,countersunk but not slotted in the same way.Just moving the center of gravity imparts some more erratic action as the jig will fall head first but hang horizontal at rest.

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1 hour ago, jcozzz said:

little clips you tie on your tippet

 I use them in the winter or when my fingers don't want to cooperate tying knots. I keep them on a few leaders pretied in by leader wallet also with droppers. very handy, I will use the Turle knot on occasion also the riffle hitch for larger wet or streamers to get it to fish the way I want.

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18 hours ago, robow7 said:

I once read an article by Fox Statler, an Arkansas fishing guide, who showed how a nymph could be made to ride side up or down depending on how you tied it on. He used a loop knot that went through the eye of the hook and then wrapped around the eye in a specific orientation (difficult to explain).  Maybe someone can dig up that article with photos as I'm having difficulty finding it but the photo below gives somewhat the idea for it. Fox was an outstanding fisherman known for his sow bug and scud patterns but sometimes his strong opinions were difficult to discern from the facts.  

 

@robow7

The article referenced above by robow7 is available at this link. It's not that long.

I would post the entire contents but it is copyrighted, so if you have interest you can access it by using the link.

Knots That Catch Fish A critical, observant, and logical look at knot tying By Fox Statler

 

 

 

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  • Thank you gillage.  That's the article.  Now I can't vouch for the results but maybe something worth investigating.

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