Beginner Tying Kit Question

[atjurhs 0]

hi guys,

i'm a total beginner in fact i don't yet have any materials or tools, and that's why i'm writing.  i think i would like to buy a starter kit, but i'm not sure what to buy and i don't want to buy junk or get taken advantage of, so that's why i've started this thread.  i do see on Amazon a kit by Ventures Fly Co. for about $350.  that would be near the limit of what i'm willing to pay.  is that a good deal, or a piece of junk, and do you know of a better kit for that kind of money.  i think my only constraint is that i need a vise that sits on a platform not one that screws onto a table as a vise.  thanks for whatever help your willing/able to give

[chugbug27 0]

This one? 

https://www.amazon.com/VENTURES-FLY-CO-Beginner-Tying/dp/B0C221R71Y/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=1KCBLK6MIBEFQ&keywords=ventures+fly+tying+kit&m=A1V2RT6R7E7DU8&qid=1683826200&s=merchant-items&sprefix=ventures+fly+tying+kit%2Caps%2C153&sr=1-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.c3015c4a-46bb-44b9-81a4-dc28e6d374b3

Looks like a total rip off, seriously.

Before recommending a kit or other options, it will help us to know (imo) whereabouts you live and fish, and what your fly fishing experience is and what your tying expectations are....

[DFoster 0]

I agree with Chug-  besides most kits will include a lot of materials for flies you may never need or want to tie.  So, assuming you have a species of fish your planning to target the best advice I can give you is to find a local fly shop.  They can guide you in on exactly what you need.  It's real easy to get overwhelmed when your starting, remember flies are tied for salt water and fresh from 150lb Tarpon down to 6" Brook trout and everything in between.  Give yourself a starting point by picking 3 known patterns for the species your targeting.  obviously you will need to know which materials are required for your patterns   A good  fly shop will help you with what you'll need to get started well as offer you advice on which ones are the least frustrating for a beginner.   Another great resource is youtube.  Just look up the pattern there.   Besides learning how to tie the fly almost every video has a list of materials and the tier will show you what they are using.   You will need a vise and a basic took kit- again a good fly shop is the best way to go but if that's not possible here's a couple of basic review vids aimed at beginners that I hope will help you out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6OjaJcdy6E&list=PLKgBFFHhdX5YkBTsLl0MUUgO0kAVwMCMX&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IUeuXWfpQo&list=PLKgBFFHhdX5YkBTsLl0MUUgO0kAVwMCMX&index=13

 

 

 

[atjurhs 0]

thanks for your help!!!

i'm not really tying for a particular fish species although i do have access to some small rainbow trout here in North Alabama's Sipsey river.  i'm more planning to tye just for the joy of tying (i need a relaxing hobby).  i do have a fly shop about an hour and a half drive, so i'll go say hello to them tomorrow.

[DWSmith 0]

I'm still new at this so take what I say with a big old salt block.

LOTS of good videos on youtube.  These may help some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiPOC9Wwb6U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceXoNDKtYdg

and Savage Flies has quite a few other videos I like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLlezAKs0X4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQJaOzb_CKw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZU3znK_hOM

 

[DFoster 0]

58 minutes ago, atjurhs said:

thanks for your help!!!

i'm not really tying for a particular fish species although i do have access to some small rainbow trout here in North Alabama's Sipsey river.  i'm more planning to tye just for the joy of tying (i need a relaxing hobby).  i do have a fly shop about an hour and a half drive, so i'll go say hello to them tomorrow.

I’m told (I live in Massachusetts) that Alabama has some really big Largemouth bass and lots of them. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of streamer and popper fly patterns specifically created to fish for them. I’ve even caught them here on Atlantic Salmon flies. Bluegills are hard fighters, really great fun on a light fly rod and they will take any thing that a trout will eat. Trout are great but pretty hard to find in a lot of the South so fish for what you have swimming in your waters. Nothing will push you to keep moving forward with the learning process of fly tying like catching fish on a fly you tied. Once you have the basics down you’ll start substituting materials and creating your own designs.  Some will work and some won’t but that’s all part of the fun (my wife would say obsession) of this sport. I wish you the best in this journey.  

[cphubert 0]

1 hour ago, atjurhs said:

i'm not really tying for a particular fish species

atjurhs, welcome to the site. if you are tying to find a relaxing hobby start with a beginners book along with you tube to learn the basics- thread control and material handling.  Most kits have inadequate tools and materials. get a reasonable vise and tools ask when you visit the shop if you can demo a vise and bobbins to find what you like rotary or none rotary. a lot of people on this site will help you if you ask, please feel free but a lot of us have our own opinions based on the type of tying we do. I hope you find pleasure in this hobby it has a lot of opportunity for artistic style.

[Poopdeck 0]

yes that kit is a rip off. Also be careful at the fly shop, they are liable to sell you everything you don’t need and more.

I would shy anyway from the generic or fly shop branded vises and go with a name brand. Griffin, Renzetti, Regal, Wolff, Peak and Dyna-King just to name a few all make good vises. I won’t recommend a brand because of the crazy fanaticism out there for vises. Everybody believes their chosen vise is the best when in reality all hold a hook, they are just different. tying flies isn’t difficult and the tools required do very little in the process. All you should be looking for in a vise is something that holds a hook. Don’t be distracted by the shiny cool things like rotation, stainless whatever, brass this, custom paint that and everything else that is not needed to tie a fly. A basic vise will tie a fly no better, no worse or faster or slower than a thousand dollar vise.  On the other hand, there’s nothing wrong with buying the shiny cool thing either as long as it holds a hook tightly. You will need a bobbin and scissors to start. At some point you will want a hair stacker, whip finish tool, and bodkin so might as well pick them up in the beginning. You can get all of them for 50 bucks or less or more if you want. The tools, minus the vise, in a tool kit are all fine and will provide years and years of trouble free service. 

for materials, pick out a fly you want to tie and buy the materials for this fly. Keep doing this one or two flies at a time and your material collection will grow in no time. I concur with YouTube. It’s all you need to learn. 

[chugbug27 0]

Atjurhs,

There's a fly fishing club in Huntsville that meets the third Thursday of every month and that has tying sessions the second and fourth Thursdays of every month. Looks like they charge a $2 materials fee each session and have tools available for your use during the session and possibly to borrow until you get your own. I'd try that before dropping $400 or even $100 or $200 on some tying tools and materials you have no familiarity with. They'll also be familiar with local fly shops in terms of what they offer fly tyers, what they're good for and where you're better off looking elsewhere.

https://www.tennesseevalleyflyfishers.org/

They apparently recommend their beginners use the old FAOL online beginner tying series for those wanting a beginner lesson format, which is pretty good. Also they like Barry Ord Clark's "Feather Bender" online resources. That's also a good resource, so they're not steering you wrong there. If you go to the full meeting and one or two tying sessions, you'll know if it's a match without overcommitting. 

A good beginner's book is another great route (that's what I did), and videos, either without the fly fishing club or together with it. But if you ask what's a good beginner's tying book you're going to open a can of worms. If you meet someone willing to spend some in person time helping you at the twice monthly Huntsville tying session til you get your bearings, I'd go with what they recommend.

My 2¢

[DWSmith 0]

As far as kits go here's my opinion.

Not all kits are created equal.  I started with a kit from Cabela's years ago and I'm still pleased with nearly all of its pieces.  None of it was junk.  But I don't think they sell the same kit any longer.

If you want to go with a kit keep in mind what species of fish you are tying flies to catch.  If you're going after panfish and the kit is centered around trout you're going to have to buy more materials and hooks.  This happened to me with my kit.  I don't remember ever seeing a panfish fly tying kit.  I learned how to tie a few trout flies, which was very helpful, but I'm a panfisherman.

My fly tying stalled out and now I'm starting up again many years later.  Now I'm upgrading some of the tools and buying the right materials.

If I were just starting out I'd watch a ton of videos, buy a few good beginner books, pick my target species, buy (good enough) tools and materials (not a kit), and tie several flies for each of 2 or 3 patterns recommended by the guys here for catching your species.  Then you can add some patterns to your repertoire.  If you feel you're going to stick with it after quite a while you may/may not want to upgrade your vise and add  some tools.

This hobby can be terribly expensive or relatively cheap.  It can also be fun to catch fish on flies you've tied.  (Yes, I caught panfish on the trout flies I tied.)

[gadabout 0]

Ditto on most of the comments provided so far.  When I started, I bought a popular (at the time) entry-level vise, and then a few basic tools, one at a time. After a few false starts trying to tie flies too difficult for a beginner, I found success tying a few streamers and bucktails.  This was long before YouTube, so my source of information was books.  A book by Eric Leiser allowed me to turn the corner.

One fly at a time, buying the materials that you need as you go, is the smart way to do it.  Beware of anyone that advises you to buy the best vise you can afford.  Until you have been tying for a few years, you won’t know what style of vise is best for you.  There is no point in making a big investment now.  The vise won’t tie the fly for you.   Virtually any vise you can buy that gets decent reviews will allow you to learn fly tying.  At least as important as the vise and tools is a convenient place to tie.  You’ll discover this in short order.

[SilverCreek 0]

Like learning to fly cast, tying flies is a lot easier to learn if you have a mentor that can teach you.

I hope you can find someone to help you.

[Gene L 0]

I have heard good things about the Orvis premium kit at $200.  Except for the vise, which has gotten bad reviews.  I understand that the kit has videos, which should help, if you must have a kit.  For a cheap but good vise, I recommend the Maxcatch Rotating vise, which can be had for $37 on the web.  It's a very good vise and easy to use.  I've got one I like to tie on it every once in a while.  I paid $50 for mine.

I have to admit while not the best choice for a kit, there's something neat about buying a kit if you're just beginning. It's like Christmas, but not the best way to go.  I bought an Orvis kit about 30 years ago and it was useless because of lots of stuff one could never use.  So apparently they're much better reportedly than the one I got. 

The idea above about targeting a species is good advice, but if you just want to tie, pick a fly or flies you want to tie and go for it. That's the cheapest and most logical way to go and you can go from there.  

[redband02 0]

All the above advise is very good

When I teach kids fly tying I use a Griffin vises. Either the 1A. or my favorite the Griffin Pro II.  I tie on a Regal Medallion

Plus 1 for the old FAOL online beginner tying series very informative for beginners  https://www.flyanglersonline.com/

I usually follow Scott Cesari beginner fly tying program but can't seem to find it anymore

1. good vise that holds hooks well

2. figure out what fly you want to tie

3. only buy the materials for that vise (otherwise you will wind up like me with thousands of dollars in unused materials)

4. take a class if available

Good luck going down this rabbit hole

Tom

[flytire 0]

Here is MY thought on fly tying kits

I have never bought a kit per se. I enrolled in tying classes and the instructor laid out all of the tools and materials we were going to use for his classes and bought them in the first class.

I think experienced fly tyers have to realize that the materials in fly tying kits are not the highest quality for an experienced fly tyer to tie with but to ME they are good enough for a new tyer to simply use as practice materials. So what if a deer hair patch is a little curled up around the edges, it still can be used. So what if the hackle is not from a $150 neck, it too can still be used. So what if tying kits have materials to tie certain fly patterns, they still can be used.

I'm also sure that an experienced fly tyer could tie some pretty darn good flies from the materials in the kits even with the lower quality materials.

Not all experienced fly tyers have had the opportunity to buy and try every kit that is on the market today and give a reasonable review of each and every one. The answer from the fly tying collective is always is "dont buy a kit"!

And yes, the tying tools in kits are probably not of the highest quality that an experienced fly tyer would use but they are probably workable for a new tyer. Some tools should probably be upgraded as soon as possible or when the tyers budget allows.

Some new tyers go whole hog and buy the best that their money can buy only to find out that fly tying for them is not what its all cracked up to be and simply lose interest. Sure they can sell their stuff on craigslist or ebay or a fly tying forum but it just may have been better for them to get a kit without shelling out hundreds of dollars for something to collect dust somewhere in a basement.

It is always good to hear the ideas and comments from experienced fly tyers but not all experienced fly tyers are experienced in all aspects of fly tying. I know I am certainly not and will admit it.

Enough of my rant and I hope its helpful.