tmatt26 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2009 i can tie flies just fine all the way down to size 16 but anything smaller than that i have problems with the hackle being too long, things bunching up. just wondering if you all use magnification lenses or a special hackle. thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Philly 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2009 I use 3 power el cheapo reading glasses when I'm tying. Once I get down to size 16 I start using a fold down magnifier that attaches to a hat. I've pretty much quit using hackle on my smaller flies. I think I tie one pattern that uses hackle and only down to a size 20. One trick I have is to use a light wire shrimp/caddis pupae hook. TMC 2487/2488 is a good example. These have a 1 or 2 xtra short shank. To translate that, the shank on a size 16 is about the same length as one on a size 20 standard dry fly hook. Drop your thread size down. 10/0 or 12/0 is a good choice for small flies. If you have a good neck, at the bottom you'll see some extremely small feathers. I use these on my smaller flies. Also, now a days you can by a pack of hackle that will work a specific size fly. Depending on how many small ones you tie you may want to invest in a pack or two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Futzer 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2009 Hi TMatt, I agree with Philly, small high quality materials, this is where genetically raised necks and saddles like Whiting are a must. I do not pull out the magnifier, either cheaters or I have a desk mounted light and magnifying glass until the 24s to 32s. Thread control is paramount, as few wraps as possible to tie in, two usually is plenty. Proportions are critical. I use a small internal micrometer to size hackles, 1.5 times the gap for standard patterns, sometimes 1 times for paraloopers etc. This is also where I would never use a true rotary vice, the neck gets in the way of mounting the tail. I have a Dynaking Pro and I angle the jaws up at about 60 degrees, so the jaw is not in my way. Keep practicing, your thread control will come. Post some of your work and We can give you more pointers. Cheers, Futzer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arkansas Mike 0 Report post Posted June 8, 2009 The smallest dry flies I've tied are 18's. Obviously, with flies this small, you want to dress everything as sparse as possible to keep down the bulk. I use 8/0 Uni-thread, but a smaller thread like Uni's Caenis thread, which is supposedly about 19/0 or 20/0, might help (don't go out and buy any of this before asking some of the other guys here. I've never used it, and there are folks that know a heckuva' lot more than me that'll give you their two cents). If you have a higher grade quality genetic cape, you should be able to find hackles down into the 18's and 20's. There are even quite a few on my Whiting Bronze cape, so I'm sure the Silver or Gold grades have them if you care to shell out $90 or so. I usually only take 2-3 wraps of hackle on flies this small and omit any wings the pattern might call for. I don't use any sort of magnification while I'm actually tying, but once I'm finished I'll slip on my pair of 2x Wal-Mart reading glasses to inspect my handy work. I usually regret it, though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djinco 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 I use a lighted mag but I just got it about a month ago. It is nice but I tied for a long time without. 99% of the time I don't tie anything larger than an 18. My favorite is a 20 RS2 (see avitar). I have some 18 wolly buggers if I want to use an attractor. Cheers, Doug in Colorado Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arkansas Mike 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 I have some 18 wolly buggers if I want to use an attractor. Cheers, Doug in Colorado Size 18 Wooly Buggers? Wow. Baby Buggers! Do you use chenille, or dub the body? Tail? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iso18 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 under a size 20,i have found that hackle is not needed.on that note,the past couple of yearzs i have strayed away from hackled dry flies,except for brookie streams.I find myself using comparaduns,usuals,cdc emergers and feel i have increased my strike ratio dramatically,on my favorite stream here in wv,i simply use the flies dave bretmeier constructs in "midge majic" and have found that simply thread and cdc work very well.Although some days they dont,like the days i watch a 8 inch brown follow a real mayfly for a few feet inspecting it and then turns away,on days like this,well lets just sAy,u get allot of time practicing your casting. shane Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishinbub 0 Report post Posted June 24, 2009 17/0 Thread, the best stuff since they invented the rotarty vise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djinco 0 Report post Posted July 7, 2009 I have some 18 wolly buggers if I want to use an attractor. Cheers, Doug in Colorado Size 18 Wooly Buggers? Wow. Baby Buggers! Do you use chenille, or dub the body? Tail? Mike, Sorry It has taken me so long to reply - I was out of the loop for a while. I use Black Marabou Blood Quills for the tail. A bit longer than the length of the hook shaft. Wrap in a Hackle tip at just before the marabou. On the 18 and smaller, I don't use any chenille, just wrap the hackle to the eye. Tie off and make a nice thread cone head. I know, the way I do the hackle is backwards. The trout out here love the black buggers. Doug in Colorado Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ezpickins 0 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 For small dries 18 and down - I tie parachute patterns. I find them easier to handle in the small sizes - hackle size isn't quite as critical as Catskill style flies. Also I use thread, or twisted UNI-stretch or twisted antron bodies, rather than trying to use dubbing on tiny dries. Using thread or one of these other material makes tying slim bodies on tiny dries a lot easier. Here's a link to my technique for small parachutes - It may not be the best technique but it works for me. Small Parachute Flies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Runarsson 0 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 17/0 Thread, the best stuff since they invented the rotarty vise. When you want to go thinner than that, pick out a spool of GSP thread and start separating. In 3-4 filaments, slightly twisted, you will have a reeeally thin thread with a breaking strength higher than you need for tying a fly in the "tiny fly" size range. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feckineejit 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 #32 parachute Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites