Orvis tying threads

[Runarsson 0]

I hear from several people that Orvis' tying thread (here) is supplied by Gudebrod. It doesn't seem unrealistic to me, since I hadn't seen anyone else than Gudebrod carrying a size 'G'... and the fact that a few of the spools Gudebrod sent me when they dropped their pro staff had Orvis labels.

I can't find a 10/0 thread in the Orvis product catalogue though (even though a couple of the 10/0 spools Gudebrod sent me had Orvis labels). They DO have a 12/0 thread though... with the same color chart as the other sizes.

 

Does anyone know if the denier size of this 12/0 is equivalent to the 45 denier 10/0 Gudebrod thread (or if it's in fact the very same thread with a more fair aught "nick")?

 

/Niclas

[atroutbum2 0]

 

to really understand the answer you need to hear Chris Helm give his presentation on thread sizing.

 

The heart of it is that the ought thread sizing isnt an industry standard that is a uni 8/0 isnt the same as a orvis 8/0 or a danville 8/0.

 

the industry thread size standard is denier which roughly means how much a certain length of thread weighs i think its grams per 1000 meters , but im probably wrong

 

all 45 denier threads are the same size.

 

 

so getting back to your question if the guidenbrod 10/0 thread is 45 denier, you need to look for another 45 denier thread by another manufactuer and it would be the same size.

[flytire 0]

http://www.flyfisherman.com/ftb/ssthread/index.html

[Runarsson 0]

to really understand the answer you need to hear Chris Helm give his presentation on thread sizing.

 

The heart of it is that the ought thread sizing isnt an industry standard that is a uni 8/0 isnt the same as a orvis 8/0 or a danville 8/0.

 

the industry thread size standard is denier which roughly means how much a certain length of thread weighs i think its grams per 1000 meters , but im probably wrong

 

all 45 denier threads are the same size.

 

so getting back to your question if the guidenbrod 10/0 thread is 45 denier, you need to look for another 45 denier thread by another manufactuer and it would be the same size.

I know Chris Helm personally and he is in fact the one who first taught me about the denier standard (grams per 9000 meters btw). We were both on the Gudebrod pro staff... and yes, I also know that the aught "standard" is just numbers without meaning... a name of the thread and nothing more.

 

But my question wasn't really about denier as a standard. It was simply: Who is Orvis' thread supplier TODAY? I know Gudebrod made thread for them for a while. But I don't know if they still do it TODAY. Small hints in the Orvis product catalogue gave me some hope. Before Orvis, Gudebrod is the only one I have seen carrying a size 'G' thread... and before Orvis, Gudebrod is the only one I've seen carrying a maroon thread. But, on the other hand, maroon is just a name and not necessarily the same maroon as Gudebrod did... and 'G' is also just a name, which doesn't have to mean that it's a 250 denier thread like Gudebrod's.

Then of course I was curious about this 12/0 thread. Gudebrod didn't have a 12/0 thread... so IF it comes from Gudebrod, is it the same denier as the Gudebrod 10/0, or is it even thinner? (Gudebrod's 10/0 was a 45 denier, which is quite thin already. For comparison... UNI 17/0 is a 40 denier.)

 

Denier sizes aren't the same "supplier secrets" today as it once was... when "our 8/0 is stronger than their 8/0" (but not necessarily as thin). If they don't have it on their spools, they usually freely give it out if you ask them. But Orvis wouldn't tell me who the supplier was, so I don't have a supplier to ask.

 

... and that's why I'm asking people overseas, who might have tried BOTH Gudebrod's and Orvis' threads. Is it STILL the same threads behind the labels?

 

/Nick

[halcyon 0]

Niclas,

Gudebrod stopped spooling fly tying thread several years ago. I believe you are correct in that Gudebrod did spool thread for Orvis but since Gudebrod got out of that market someone else has to be supplying Orvis now, which is most likely why the 10/0 is no longer offered by Orvis. The 12/0 now offered is most likely by some other supplier.

 

 

I hear from several people that Orvis' tying thread (here) is supplied by Gudebrod. It doesn't seem unrealistic to me, since I hadn't seen anyone else than Gudebrod carrying a size 'G'... and the fact that a few of the spools Gudebrod sent me when they dropped their pro staff had Orvis labels.

I can't find a 10/0 thread in the Orvis product catalogue though (even though a couple of the 10/0 spools Gudebrod sent me had Orvis labels). They DO have a 12/0 thread though... with the same color chart as the other sizes.

 

Does anyone know if the denier size of this 12/0 is equivalent to the 45 denier 10/0 Gudebrod thread (or if it's in fact the very same thread with a more fair aught "nick")?

 

/Niclas

 

[waterloosunset 0]

Niclas,

Gudebrod stopped spooling fly tying thread several years ago. I believe you are correct in that Gudebrod did spool thread for Orvis but since Gudebrod got out of that market someone else has to be supplying Orvis now, which is most likely why the 10/0 is no longer offered by Orvis. The 12/0 now offered is most likely by some other supplier.

 

 

I hear from several people that Orvis' tying thread (here) is supplied by Gudebrod. It doesn't seem unrealistic to me, since I hadn't seen anyone else than Gudebrod carrying a size 'G'... and the fact that a few of the spools Gudebrod sent me when they dropped their pro staff had Orvis labels.

I can't find a 10/0 thread in the Orvis product catalogue though (even though a couple of the 10/0 spools Gudebrod sent me had Orvis labels). They DO have a 12/0 thread though... with the same color chart as the other sizes.

 

Does anyone know if the denier size of this 12/0 is equivalent to the 45 denier 10/0 Gudebrod thread (or if it's in fact the very same thread with a more fair aught "nick")?

 

/Niclas

Why did they get out of that market? They made the best thread, plus their website still has a page on it http://www.gudebrod.com/Fishing2005/BorgerColor.htm

[halcyon 0]

I don't know why they quit spooling fly tying or rod wrapping thread. I do know that the rod wrapping thread is back because so many people complained about its absence. But it seems to me that Gudebrod's main products are sold as commodities and not retail. I don't think they really have any concept of retail marketing. They never really marketed the rod wrapping thread for example. And if you look at the history of the fly tying thread, it never really got much push by Gudebrod. They ran ads in a few fishing magazines and that was it. When the world didn't come knocking on there door they simply seemed to stop making the thread. Their website is kind of a reflection of this attitude in my mind. I agree it was the best thread ever available. Now we are back to only one great thread, that being Danville Flymaster originally developed by Eric Leiser.

[waterloosunset 0]

I don't know why they quit spooling fly tying or rod wrapping thread. I do know that the rod wrapping thread is back because so many people complained about its absence. But it seems to me that Gudebrod's main products are sold as commodities and not retail. I don't think they really have any concept of retail marketing. They never really marketed the rod wrapping thread for example. And if you look at the history of the fly tying thread, it never really got much push by Gudebrod. They ran ads in a few fishing magazines and that was it. When the world didn't come knocking on there door they simply seemed to stop making the thread. Their website is kind of a reflection of this attitude in my mind. I agree it was the best thread ever available. Now we are back to only one great thread, that being Danville Flymaster originally developed by Eric Leiser.

Do you think that if we get enough people together we can get them to make it again? As happened with the rod wrapping thread?

[halcyon 0]

I never met a business that would not sell a product that was in demand and profitable. So, yes I think that if there was enough interest Gudebrod would bring it back. I think that when they do (optimism springs eternal) they should drop the Borger color system scheme and simply use their own names and numbers. And they need to get some retail marketing help.