FTOTY Ethical Question

[Pelhament 0]

Simple question. Do you think a fly has an unfair advantage in the FTOTY contest if it has already been posted in the database and viewed/discussed by the FTF members?

 

Obviously some people will tie well known patterns and that is not what I am really talking about. I am talking about those who come up with new patterns or put a new, creative twist on an old pattern.

[day5 0]

send me 4 dozen and ill vote for you!!! now the 40000 acorn agents i have out with pictures of your fly handing out cigaretts might be borderline!

[Bruce Derington 0]

No, submit anything you want, its a contest based on votes, if it gets the most votes it wins.Having said that, I have often wondered what would happen if I entered one or two of frogs I tie

[Kevan J. Evans 0]

Shouldn't be a big deal, has any one done it yet? I would think that it shouldn't matter, I bet know one would care -- unless it was their pattern that you tyed better

 

Bruce you totally should what should stop you from entering?

[rockworm 0]

If its in the database, anyone can tye it. I don't see an unfair advantage.

[TitanFlies 0]

The Fly tying archive is a tool open to anyone.. no advantge anywhere.

[Futzer 0]

No Pelhament, If you really start looking back some one already tied the bug, maybe even 300 years ago. All of us voters can tell a well tied fly and most can tell a difficult pattern well done. The spirit I believe of the FTOY is to push your skills and have fun.

 

Go for it, I would warn that copying a Day5 fly might have adverse effects. Joking Matt, Joking!

 

 

Also, if Bruce D. brings out a Frog, I can tell you from personal experience, I have not seen better, ever!

 

Cheers, Futzer.

[tyrite 0]

I think It doesnt matter to me if people post a fly and then send it in to the FTFYC. I love the challenge of Making better flies and seeing a post and then trying to better it is half the fun!

Bruce send in the frogs. I will send one in to and this will be a great chance to advance my tying.

 

tyrite (Glen Dayon)

[redietz 0]

It's a fly tying contest, not a fly inventing contest. It should be a measure of the craftsmanship of the tier. Individual style will always show, regardless of where the pattern came from.

 

Were I running the contest (not that it's not already a great contest) I might have required that everyone tie one mandatory pattern (within a style) and two copies of a pattern of the tier's choice -- to look for consistency. I think that's far more important than added unneeded features to a pattern to make it "original".

[Seadog 0]

If I am understanding the poll, I think it puts you at a disadvantage. I know it's not a "fly inventing contest" but in my opinion a new pattern or a fly that has not been viewed much has a little bit of a "wow factor" that would give it an edge!

[Old Hat 0]

If I am understanding the poll, I think it puts you at a disadvantage. I know it's not a "fly inventing contest" but in my opinion a new pattern or a fly that has not been viewed much has a little bit of a "wow factor" that would give it an edge!

 

I agree.

[720 Kevan 0]

yep yep, what would fishing be like to a tyer if we never fished new idea's

[redietz 0]

If I am understanding the poll, I think it puts you at a disadvantage. I know it's not a "fly inventing contest" but in my opinion a new pattern or a fly that has not been viewed much has a little bit of a "wow factor" that would give it an edge!

 

Actually, that not what the poll is really asking. It wants to know if it's cheating to use someone else's design. My only point is that if you don't have the skills to pull it off, it gives you no advantage at all. And if you do, you're probably going to add your own spin. As an example, I'm sure you've seen the deer hair anemone fish ("Nemo") that often appears at the top of these pages. It has that "wow" factor, but much of that "wow", at least to me, comes from the tier's complete mastery of deer hair spinning technique. If the average tier on the forum attempted to copy it, it may look OK, but not "Wow!". If another tier does have that complete mastery, he/she will undoubtedly make some subtle (or not so subtle) changes to it so that his/her own style comes through. The recipe might be exactly the same, but the fly will look different, and there will still be a "Wow!".

 

I'm not knocking innovation; just saying that I don't see how anyone could view using an existing pattern as cheating.

[Seadog 0]

If I am understanding the poll, I think it puts you at a disadvantage. I know it's not a "fly inventing contest" but in my opinion a new pattern or a fly that has not been viewed much has a little bit of a "wow factor" that would give it an edge!

 

Actually, that not what the poll is really asking. It wants to know if it's cheating to use someone else's design. My only point is that if you don't have the skills to pull it off, it gives you no advantage at all. And if you do, you're probably going to add your own spin. As an example, I'm sure you've seen the deer hair anemone fish ("Nemo") that often appears at the top of these pages. It has that "wow" factor, but much of that "wow", at least to me, comes from the tier's complete mastery of deer hair spinning technique. If the average tier on the forum attempted to copy it, it may look OK, but not "Wow!". If another tier does have that complete mastery, he/she will undoubtedly make some subtle (or not so subtle) changes to it so that his/her own style comes through. The recipe might be exactly the same, but the fly will look different, and there will still be a "Wow!".

 

I'm not knocking innovation; just saying that I don't see how anyone could view using an existing pattern as cheating.

 

I agree with that also! I do not think using someone elses pattern is cheaating. Totally acceptable in my book. I am just saying if 2 members that have Pelhamets excellent fly tying skills enter the contest, one using a well known pattern and the other using an original, I think the original has more of an advantage.

 

I also think tyrite should enter his deer hair mouse. Now thats a "wow" factor!

[Pelhament 0]

Thanks for the insight guys. I guess it wasn't as simple a question as I thought though. It's not a question of whether it is cheating to copy someone else's pattern, but does a fly have an unfair advantage if you tie it and present it to the FTF members with a lot of fan fare then enter it into the FTOTY.

 

Bruce's frog is a great example. Most of us have seen it and think it is amazing, we know Bruce tied it and we have been able to ask him questions regarding materials and technique. If Bruce entered it would people be more willing to vote for it knowing this information or would they be more willing to vote for it without the information.

 

I think what you guys are saying is that it doesn't matter, people will vote for flies they think are tied the best and the most creatively regardless of whether they have seen it before or know who the tyer is (even though the contest is supposed to be anonymous).

 

I never looked at the other side of the question and I think Seadog could be right, "now that I know how its done, it doesn't look so difficult" type of thing. A fly can definitely lose its wow factor after you realize how it was tied.

 

Either way, thanks guys. I had thought of entering a pattern or two that I have loaded into the database, and just wanted to guage how that would be perceived. I think I am going to try to come up with something new instead based on Seadogs insight.