Cream dubbing for soft hackles?

[CreationBear 0]

Out of curiosity, I was wondering what "cream" colored dubbings you like for wet flies--I've tried snowshoe hare underfur with pretty good results, but sometimes I think a smoother, sleeker body would be a better options. I've considered fox as well, but I'm afraid I don't know how to buy it/work with it economically. Any thoughts?

[rockworm 0]

The underfurs from red fox, badger and otter make fine dubbing for light-bodied flies. Tanned red fox pelts can be obtained through eBay. Torn skins and scraps can often be bought there at bargain prices. Likewise for badger and otter, although these usually cost more. European fitch, although less available in North America, has an unbelievably soft creamy-tan underfur.

[letumgo 0]

Hareline sells a nice cream colored rabbit dubbing (J Stockards Link - Rabbit Dubbing).

[Soft-hackle 0]

Hi,

Don't use dubbing at all if you want a sleeker body, or just dub the thorax alone. For some years, now, I have used cotton embroidery threads that you find in craft departments and sewing stores. It is inexpensive and lasts a long time. I only use one strand of the twist to make the fly below. The color Ecru makes a great soft-hackle abdomen. I use the rabbit dubbing Ray suggests for the thorax and a very pale cream yellow for the hackle.

 

Cream Soft Hackle

 

Of course, cotton is not as nice as silk, and if you can find the right color in a silk thread, that'd would be even better. The cotton does work, though, and I've taken quite a few nice fish on this fly.

 

Mark

 

[JSzymczyk 0]

shoot a fox this winter, you'll have a lifetime supply! (doesn't help you now, but we all need something to look forward to...)

 

[CreationBear 0]

Excellent ideas, gentlemen...thanks for the leads!

[Kilgore Trout 0]

Ok, I need some help after reading these posts. Being moderately new to tying, what difference does it make as to the dubbing you use? I mean, for wet flies, what's wrong with getting some non-fancy cream colored stuff for it? I go down to my shop and grab some Hareline packaged stuff of any color I want. Why go to all the trouble looking for European fitch or badger or otter?

 

Is this for competition? Or are you trying to be as close to using non-dyed, unprocessed furs as you can? Please help me understand the reasoning for the need to use such specific furs?

 

 

[Steve P 0]

Kilgore Trout,

 

As someone who has recently taken it upon myself to learn anything and everything I possibly can about dubbing lately I can tell you this. Different kinds of dubbing act in different ways on the thread (being dubbed on), on the hook (as you're wrapping it on and depending on the technique use to put it on the thread), and in the water (depending on how it goes on the hook and what technique you used). Let's look just for example at rabbit and mole.

 

Rabbit, fairly fine textured, moderate in length natural fiber with a mixture of guard hairs. When dubbed on in a normal fashion (just rolled onto the thread) you get a fairly sleek body with a small amount of guard hair sticking out here and there giving you a hint of legs or gills maybe. When applied in a dubbing loop you get a very scraggly full and rather large body with hairs sticking out every which direction that will breath and move in the water very well.

 

Mole, a very very fine, short in length natural fiber with very very little to no guard hair at all. When dubbed in a normal fashion you get a very sleek smooth and tight body. When applied in a dubbing loop you will get a shorter almost spiky look but do to the very fine texture it will move much more in the water but is difficult to build much bulk for a larger body do to the rather short length of the fiber in the first place.

 

Then you can move into other types of dubbing such as synthetics, or fox, or wool, or polypropylene, antron, sparkly stuff...... the list is virtually endless and only limited by your imagination as with most things in fly tying. Take it as far as you want really. The biggest thing that should help you decide what kind of dubbing to get should be what you would like to accomplish with that dubbing, are you looking for a spiky rough body on this fly or a really nice neat smooth body, do you want a bright dyed color that shimmers under water or something slightly muted but still has a good natural color, are you looking to impart a good deal of movement with the dubbing or will this fly have another aspect that will help to do that, would you like for the dubbing to be slightly transparent and sparse yet still give a good shape silhouette or do you want a thicker bulkier body..... all these things should help you better decide what it is you would like to buy when you purchase dubbing the next time. Yes you can go and purchase nearly any color rabbit from your local shop and there is nothing wrong with that, but there are also lots of other options out there, if for no other reason than to feed this horrible disease that we call a hobby. there is nothing wrong either way you decide to go it's a personal thing. In time you'll get it this bad too don't worry it just takes time and a second mortgage on your house!!!

 

Steve

[rockworm 0]

Kilgore Trout

 

I think Steve P has answered your question very well: natural dubbings differ in fiber length, thickness, and softness. No two are identical.

 

Now, more to the point of your question: Why not just use Hareline's non-fancy cream-coloured stuff? How many "cream" dubbings does Hareline offer? Two or three? If you are trying to match the colour of a natural insect you need a larger palette. The underfur in my red fox skin is lightest in the belly and darkest along the back. I can find a range of "cream" dubbing on one skin. And there is a whole different range of creams in an otter skin, a badger skin, or a fitch skin. There is even a very nice range of creams in an unprocessed rabbit skin!

 

Now that I have provided a plausible rationalization for the use of natural furs I must admit to another reason for using them: Natural skins are simply beautiful! And they are a pleasure to handle and use.

 

[Soft-hackle 0]

Okay,

There are certain furs and hairs which are more oily or water resistant. These would be better suited to tying dry flies. You could use them on wet flies, but you certainly would not want to use furs which are not so water resistant on dries. Likewise, you might want a dubbing which is more likely to absorb water for wets. Therefore, the kind of dubbing you select can make a difference in how a fly performs.

 

Mark

[CreationBear 0]

"Natural skins are simply beautiful! And they are a pleasure to handle and use. " That's starting to be true for me as well--I don't think I'll ever go back to the "Whiting 100" approach (no matter how much sense it makes economically.)

 

On kind of the same subject, is buying a whole fox pelt the best way to get a reasonable supply of "belly hair," or are there vendors that sell patches? (Urine stained or no!)

[Horseshoes 0]

Did someone say silk?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, cotton is not as nice as silk, and if you can find the right color in a silk thread, that'd would be even better. The cotton does work, though, and I've taken quite a few nice fish on this fly.

 

Mark

[rockworm 0]

I vaguely remember Mike Hogue at Badger Creek Flytying (eflytyer.com) mentioning he had some vixen belly patches (stained and unstained.) Of course, getting a full skin will save you money in the long run. But only if you put it to good use. My red fox skin cost me $25 on eBay. (But I think it should have cost more, as it is soft-tanned and in very good condition.) I just checked Moscow Hide and Fur (hideandfur.com) and they have some damaged red fox skins in the $30 range.

[troutguy 0]

Cotton looks nice dry, never saw it hold color well wet. Silk is good. Love fox, badger, otter, very light muskrat or dyed beaver. Opossum both American and Australian is also good. Natural furs have a living luster to them not seen in some other products.

[CreationBear 0]

"Of course, getting a full skin will save you money in the long run. But only if you put it to good use." Ha...I'm afraid I'm finding the whole woodchuck I bought is taking a bit longer to go through than I had planned (still a great material, though.) Thanks again for the leads...