JoeLePaul 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 Hey folks, having to stock up on my materials, I'm in dire need for a quality grizzly cape. I will be needing it for: a ) Hackles for hook size #12-#16 b ) Wings for same hook sizes, for example the Adams pattern. I have all possibilities to select from: Metz, Whiting, Howard's Hackle, Keough Each in the grade #A, #B or #C. If I have noticed anything from shop photographs, it is that the Metz capes seem to have the finest structured grizzly, which I like very much for quality wings. I dislike wings with only 2-3 stripes. Furthermore, someone told me that the only difference of high grades is that there are more feathers for very small flies (below #20) Also, I'm in Germany and thus do not have a local shop to check the capes out (the next one is a 3 hour drive from here). Furthermore, prices are almost the same for all producers, they usually vary only with the grades (an A grade here is 75 €, a B grade 50 € and a C grade 35 €. So, can you suggest me what I should buy - maybe also out of personal experience? Thanks! Joe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 for the wings of an adams i will recommend a grizzly hen cape if you like the metz neck then thats what you should go with Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeLePaul 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 Thanks flytire, however, I forgot to mention that while I like the Metz Grade A neck based on the coloring, I do not know whether I really require A grade since it only offers feathers for flies outside of my range as an upside. Using those small feathers as Adams wings were my only "upside" of an Grade A. However, I've seen color differences between Grades A and B as well, the B ones usually having less stripes. Is it always like that or can fine-structured B grades exist as well? Edit: I've received photographs by my online dealer; I can hardly see any difference between the capes. Anyone experienced with them can comment on them? (from left to right: Metz Grade #A, Metz Grade #B, Howard's Hackle Grade # Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluegill576 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 i think the best bet would be a grade b metz or grade a whiting Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 From the perspective of a fish, the differences in the coloration in the banding is of no consequence, as the wings should be reasonably well hidden, except for their tips, by the hackle. I second flytire's comment on hen hackle for dry fly wings. The tips of today's genetic hackle capes are very poor for dry fly wings in my opinion. They are too sharp-pointed on the tip. I want a nice round point on the tip of the quill for my flies. Just my preference. I also second bluegills recommendation of a "B" grade cape; regardless of the grower. Such a cape will yield many hackles in the desired size range. perchjerker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
whatfly 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 As others mentioned, get a grizzly hen neck for wings. Hugh Spencer (Spencer Hackle) had a very good deal posted on Fly Tyer's Dungeon that you might want to check out: http://www.flytyersdungeon.com/Materials/Spencerspecial.htm. Either neck A or B would be my choice...although I'd be tempted to get both, considering how hard hackle is to find these days... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 with the quality of todays hackle (regardless of grower) and in the sizes you want to tie (12 - 16) you may be able to get away with a grade c, #3, bronze or whatever they call them these days Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeLePaul 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 As others mentioned, get a grizzly hen neck for wings. Hugh Spencer (Spencer Hackle) had a very good deal posted on Fly Tyer's Dungeon that you might want to check out: http://www.flytyersdungeon.com/Materials/Spencerspecial.htm. Either neck A or B would be my choice...although I'd be tempted to get both, considering how hard hackle is to find these days... If I were not in Germany.. Here, hen hackle is 25 € a piece And a half Grade C Metz is at 20 €... Maybe I will order some half Grade C Metz - since I can send them back during the first two weeks - and trade them against more high grade capes if I'm not satisfied. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rockworm 0 Report post Posted July 28, 2011 Lots of good responses so far! You can't judge a skin until its in your hands. But if you must order online I suggest you start a dialogue with your supplier. If you can tell him exactly what you want (and don't want) it will be in his best interests to make sure you get it. I know you say you are looking for a cock neck, but your desired size range (12 to 16) might be best matched with a cock saddle. (?) Just a thought. I also belong to the camp that believes hen neck feathers make superior wings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johny Utah 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2011 You get a better bang for your buck with a whiting grade bronze. Even a Pro grade is great for 12-16s. Whiting is a far superior hackle i.m.h.o. A grade 3 whiting is comparable to a grade 1 metzs. If you could find a saddle it would be better, but good luck finding one of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeLePaul 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2011 Saddles are as rare here as in the USA - noone sells them. A Whiting Bronze is more expensive than a Grade #1 Metz here, so I wonder. At the moment, I'm definitely shifting into the direction of trying half Grade C Metz out, since they cost little (and its easier to talk about to the wife ) and seem to offer exactly what I want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted July 29, 2011 Got a few The Metz is #1 Full Saddle The Whitings are Gold Lable Dark Ginger, Grizzly, light ginger grizzly Dun, Black, white, Brown Chartreuse dyed The only problem, because of medical problems right now I'm not allowed to play with any sharp objects, so no tying of flies or jigs - and haven't been able to go fishing in over a year!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeLePaul 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2011 I couldn't wait anymore for the arrival of the new materials, took my 10 year old indian grizzly cock neck and started making Adam flies. The only trouble I've encountered is that the feathers with the correct hackle size are very short, I can hardly do more than a few hackle turns. Nevertheless, I like the results. Having not tied anything for 10 years, I'm happy that my skills haven't become too rusty Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mvendon 0 Report post Posted July 29, 2011 Hi Joe, After reading all the responces above, have you ever considered tying parachute Adams instead of the traditional winged version? They fish at least twice as effective as the winged version. You could use polyproplyene yarn for the post which is cheap and easy to come by, and use more than just one color depending on outside light conditions. You don't have to mix two colors of hackle around the post, just grizzly since the fish certainly aren't going to notice from below the water looking up. I haven't fished a winged version in years, and an Adams parachute is one of my standard go to patterns in quite a size range. Just a suggestion. Regards, Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EdMauss 0 Report post Posted July 30, 2011 As others mentioned, get a grizzly hen neck for wings. Hugh Spencer (Spencer Hackle) had a very good deal posted on Fly Tyer's Dungeon that you might want to check out: http://www.flytyersdungeon.com/Materials/Spencerspecial.htm. Either neck A or B would be my choice...although I'd be tempted to get both, considering how hard hackle is to find these days... I called "Spencer Hackle" today. He said he has gotten out of the business and sold all of his stuff to some lady then he gave me her number. I asked if she was selling for fly tying or for hair he just laughed and said "her husband is a fly fisherman" I called twice and no one answered, I will try and call again later. I need to find some dry fly hackle in a bad way, I am trying to tie but I am completely out of good hackle. Does an one have any suggestions? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites