eastern fly 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 I have this idea I have been working on and I need help. I tyed a few deer hair scum frog imatations. I'm trying to duplacate the rubber scum frog. I'm trying to get the hook point up. When I did it without weight it fliped hook down. Then I tried my smallest barbell eyes and it runs just under the surface. Does anyone have an idea to do it hook point up and keep it on the surface? Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
salty fly 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 Mabey a peice of mono with some beads.I dont know if that would work for the pattern that you are working on.By the way theEmerald shiner that you tyed for the smallmouth swap is a great tie,the head wraps are so neat and clean.I am trying to learn from studying ties from the swaps.Thanks a lot,hopefuly I will get to be in another swap with you. Tight lines Bryan'salty fly' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poksal 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 But, you may have a good thing going with a frog just under the surface. ... have you tried it out on the fish??? Working it in a swim action? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eastern fly 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 Mabey a peice of mono with some beads.I dont know if that would work for the pattern that you are working on.By the way theEmerald shiner that you tyed for the smallmouth swap is a great tie,the head wraps are so neat and clean.I am trying to learn from studying ties from the swaps.Thanks a lot,hopefuly I will get to be in another swap with you. Tight lines Bryan'salty fly' Thanks Bryan that fly brought me my best smallmouth to date. What I have done sofar is simply spinning the hair with a flat bottom and the nose to a rounded point. My legs where rabbit strip tied under the shank. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 I am not familiar with the 'scum frog' pattern. However, you might try trimming the body wider to give you a larger flat bottom surface area for it to float on. Also, make every effort to keep the hook on the center-line of the body, and the bottom perfectly flat (horizontal) relative to the axis of the hook bend . This can be critical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atroutbum2 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 Kevin, it seems to me as if your trying to make something like a dahalbarg diver/deerhair frog, but you want the hook point to ride up instead of down. I might suggest that you tie it on an extra lg streamer hook, 6xl, and then maby about mid shank bend the hook bendback style,maby even wrap a few turns of lead on it too, just enough to keep the hook turned the right way, but not enough to sink the frog. i hope this helps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eastern fly 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 I am not familiar with the 'scum frog' pattern. However, you might try trimming the body wider to give you a larger flat bottom surface area for it to float on. Also, make every effort to keep the hook on the center-line of the body, and the bottom perfectly flat (horizontal) relative to the axis of the hook bend . This can be critical. Here's a like for the lure in talking about. I haven't taken a pic of the fly I tyed. http://www.landbigfish.com/showcase.cfm?PID=1748&SiteID=1462 Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyFishin'Jam 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 Not sure if this helps but this frog appears to be 'hook point up'. Just found from browsing another topic, looks pretty kool. Let us know how you get on. http://flymenfishingcompany.org/flytying/articulated-shank-patterns/yellow-belly-frog/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Markbob 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 Eastern, This is a store bought fly that fishes just like you want it to. I have not tried to duplicate it because I don't know how to pack hair so that it is that dense that far from the tie in point but maybe you can make it work. This particular fly will walk just like a miro lure on the surface, hook point up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eastern fly 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 Eastern, This is a store bought fly that fishes just like you want it to. I have not tried to duplicate it because I don't know how to pack hair so that it is that dense that far from the tie in point but maybe you can make it work. This particular fly will walk just like a miro lure on the surface, hook point up. My question is what's keeping it point up and on the surface. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSzymczyk 0 Report post Posted August 29, 2011 Eastern, This is a store bought fly that fishes just like you want it to. I have not tried to duplicate it because I don't know how to pack hair so that it is that dense that far from the tie in point but maybe you can make it work. This particular fly will walk just like a miro lure on the surface, hook point up. My question is what's keeping it point up and on the surface. Kevin I'm with you on that Kevin, I don't see what would make that fly ride hook point up... must be missing something. I've made hook-up deer hair bugs just by trimming the deer hair opposite of what I would normally do... with a razor as close to the shank as possible on what would normally be the TOP of the fly, and leaving an extra long collar of deer hair on the bend side, and part of the deer hair collar left splayed to the sides as outriggers. It doesn't work perfectly but it works. The problem is that it dramatically clogs up the hook gap, so using an extra long hook might be thinking in the right direction... even bending the extra long shank DOWN at a point about even with the hook point might make it act as something of a keel....Exactly the same as on a "bendback" bucktail only make the bend much further back on the shank, where the deer hair body would end at the tail material tie in point. I think there are a few ways to solve this problem. Perhaps tie the "real" hook in sort of like you would for an articulated fly, but with some stiff heavy mono. Tie it to another hook on which you will actually tie your fly, with the bend opposite of the tying hook so you can get the job done in your vise. Tie your fly and trim it as you "normally" would, then take cutters and cut off the bend of the fly hook--- you'd now have your frog with an inverted hook sticking out of it's butt. It could work. Heavy (25 lb test or more) with a little ball melted on the end, whipped with a double layer of 6/0 thread then coated with zap-a-gap won't come apart. Don't fall into the myth that you need a bare shank to spin a deer hair body, and you will get better froggy looking spots by stacking anyways. This is good stuff, because there is a lake near me which produces some big largemouths in heavy hydrilla during spring and early summer. I need to work on some more weedless surface patterns for the fall, as well as next year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
troutguy 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2011 Bend the shank of the hook down so it acts like a keel. The hook point is still facing up the bend of the hook rides down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eastern fly 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2011 One of the lakes I fish has a huge weed flat with open spots and at time you can watch the grass moving while the fish move thur like a hall way. I'm trying to grasp some of the ideas everyone is giving me. There has to be a way to make this work. Just a weed guard isn't good enough. Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NJ All Day 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2011 Have you tried putting some weight on the top side of the hook. Then do what JSzymczyk was talking about when he was saying trim a reverse popper type fly. Just a thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
salty fly 0 Report post Posted August 30, 2011 I saw a frog like the one on your link at tackle warehouse.I had an idea to try to make something like that.I make a balsa body and made the legs artuclated,with beading wire.I drilled holes on the sides pointing back rearward.I put the hook point up.I spun a clump of deer hair on the shank.Then I made foam legs.I used a weed guard also just to make it as weed proof as I can.I fish a lake like your talking about,this time of year there is a ton of weeds,heavy cover with some holes.I throw my bug or in this case a balsa frog up on the weeds and rip it up and over the cover and in to the holes and back to the weeds.I cant believe the stuff I can pull it through. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites