Is stainless really necessary ?

[heavynets 0]

I'll be going on a 3 day fishing trip to Belize in the near future. The trip cost is starting to add up due to all the saltwater specific items I need. Since I'll probably never fish saltwater again, I'm trying to economize wherever possible.

 

Can I get away with using Mustad 3366 hooks instead of stainless? I'm sure they will start to rust, but shouldn't they be good enought for a day or two if I rinse them off? Are they going to be strong enough for bonefish, permit, and possibly cuda and tarpon (assuming all being of average size)?

[JSzymczyk 0]

3366 hooks are rather soft steel. I have hundreds and hundreds of them in all sizes. I'm sure you could use them if you are very careful of how you fight the big fish.

 

If this is a trip of a lifetime, a few packs of stainless fly hooks seem like a minor expense right? You're only there 3 days, so it's not like you will need hundreds of flies.

[mikechell 0]

Even in the fresh water, my flies tied on regular hooks eventually start to rust. If you plan on using the flies for bass or pike, etc, then stainless will last longer. I tie some of my larger flies on stainless because bass are few and far between. I spend a day fly fishing for bass, I might catch 4 or 5 ... maybe more, sometimes none. Which means the only thing keeping me from using a fly all year might be rust. Dollar for dollar, stainless is cheaper in the long run if you want to use the flies again.

 

The other thing about rust ... long before you SEE rust, the point of your hook is gone. Rust attacks the thinnest part first and there goes the point ... some missed fish is just the result of a less than "needle point" on your hook.

 

Will a normal steel hook work in Salt Water? Sure, but you WILL throw those away after the trip is done, no matter how much rinsing in fresh water you do.

[utyer 0]

While bronzed hooks WILL last for the length of time your there, there are some inexpensive plated hooks. Bothe the L67, and L1197N hooks from Eagle Claw will work out for what your doing. They are on sale at the big C for 6.17 and that is for 80 to 100 hooks depending on size. Your left over flies a good gift for your guide (but NOT in place of a tip.)

[Peterjay 0]

No, stainless isn't necessary for a short trip, but like Joel said, after going all the way down there, it'd be a shame to lose a big fish to a cheap hook. I'd go with Mustad signature hooks - they're affordable, very strong and sharp. (C70SD is probably all you'll need for the species you mentioned) The Eagle Claw hooks mentioned above will also work - just make sure you sharpen them. (ALWAYS check your hooks in the field and sharpen them when necessary) FWIW, Larry Dahlberg claims he ties a lot of saltwater flies on bronzed hooks - he usually loses them long before they have a chance to rust anyway. The main thing is to make sure you're using a strong hook. If you've never fished salt water before, you're in for a shock when you first experience the strength and speed of saltwater gamefish. Just about anything in the salt will make mincemeat out of freshwater tackle. It's a totally different ball game.

[ditz2 0]

I don't live near the salt but I do tie flies for the salt and some of them do get used to chase bass. Stainless hooks are expensive and I do use some of them but I use a lot more plated hooks made by Eagle Claw. I bought them at a Walmart in FL and they don't sell them around here. I spent 2 mo in FL last winter and used several of the plated hook flies and then just put them back into the flybox after just drying them and no freshwater rinse. I just went thru my salty flybox a couple of days ago and I found only one fly that had any hint of rust. Of course I can not see under the body materials and they may be rusted badly where I can not see. I think stainless is a better option but I also believe that if I had given these flies a good rinse in sweet water there probably would be no rust problem. This is only mylimited experiance. In fact, I have been using these plated hooks for some of my freshwater flies as well. The only 2 problems I see with them is they have an offset point that I have been bending back to straight and if you sharpen them the plating will be removed though they are pretty sharp out of the box and I have a sore thumb to prove it. I do believe that the plated hooks are a decent option to stainless though are not as good. The cost is less than 1/3 that of stainless.

[tidewaterfly 0]

I do believe that the plated hooks are a decent option to stainless though are not as good

 

There are some very good quality stainless hooks being produced, but you will pay a premium price for them. IMO, there are plated hooks that are better quality than the stainless, being stronger & will hold their sharpness better. Stainless, even the best, is not a very hard material compared to carbon steels. Even stainless hooks will rust.

 

As others have mentioned, the 3366 is not a good option for saltwater, particularly if you're chasing Bonefish, Permit, Barracuda or Tarpon. They're not a very strong hook. They will work for bass, but bass don't make the extreme runs that saltwater fish are capable of making.

 

The EC hooks mentioned are good alternatives. Even the EC 253 & 254 plated hooks are suitable for anything you may encounter in Belize. I used to tie Tarpon flies for Capt Ralph Delph on the plated 254's, so they are plenty strong enough. The 253 is a nickel plated hook, and certainly will not last as long as a tinned hook, but they too are strong enough for all but the largest fish, such as Tarpon.

 

I tie on the VMC/Rapala 9255 plated hooks quite a bit, which would also be a good option for Belize. IMO, they're far superior to Mustad's 3407 in both strength & sharpness right from the package, and are relatively inexpensive.

 

If you intend to primarily chase Bonefish, you might also consider some of the hooks being sold by Allen.

 

That EC L67 hook that utyer mentioned is an excellent hook, and is very strong. It's a Lazer sharp hook, but the point may need to be touched up as the plating is added after the chemical sharpening. That's another hook I used to tie Tarpon flies on when I tied commercially.

[Peterjay 0]

Just to echo a couple of Tidewater's points: IMO also, stainless steel hooks are inferior to the plated carbon steel varieties. Even Mustad appears to be phasing out their stainless steel lines in favor of better materials and finishes. (the Signature series) Stainless hooks need considerable sharpening right out of the box and lose their points quickly if they come into contact with rocks, etc. Not so with the newer stuff. All this is probably beginning to sound confusing, but ANY of the hooks recommended here will do the job for you if pay attention to keeping the points sharp. Don't forget to let us know how you make out in Belize.

[heavynets 0]

Thanks for all the advice, I've learned a lot. I'll report back next month.

[slapwater 0]

Just another plug for the Eagle Claw L067 Billy Pate hooks. They are great for bonefish/permit sized flies and are $7 or $8 per hundred. Cheap, good hooks.

[mikechell 0]

I never even thought of plated hooks. I'll have to get some of those instead of stainless, next time.

[sthrncomfort 0]

I would recommend a Mustad C70SD, Gamakatsu SC15 or S11-3H.

 

Unless you plan on fighting the fish for an extended period of time, you will find yourself straightening a hook or two if you go with a 3366.

[variant 0]

It's not a very popular view, but I actually prefer using bronzed hooks in the salt. I read somewhere that a stainless or plated hook that was swallowed and had to be cut off to release the fish would cause more problems to the fish than a carbon steel hook which will quickly break down and fall out. The theory could be totally baseless, but it makes me feel better.

 

I will admit there is one drawback. Maybe I'm not thorough enough, but rinsing in fresh water still leaves some salt in and under the body of the fly, so the shank rusts and discolors the fly.

[Peterjay 0]

Yeah, you can't expect bronzed hooks to have much of a lifespan in salt water. I've had plenty of them rust out in fresh water as well, especially if they weren't dried before being put away. If you're concerned about fish swallowing hooks, give circle hooks a try. Gill-hooking, etc., is extremely rare, and circles work well on most species. I think I read somewhere that Enrico Pugliusi is even using them on all his tarpon flies these days.

[tidewaterfly 0]

Bob Clouser mentions using circle hooks for Tarpon in his book, "Clouser's Flies".

When cadmium was used for plating on hooks, it was known to cause problems, because the oxide can be toxic to fish, just as oxidized lead can be toxic. However, tin is now used, and is not a problem since tin oxides at a very slow rate. Bronzed hooks are carbon steel, just as tinned hooks are. It was once thought that stainless hooks would not rust out, but from what I was told by several FL Keys guides, is that even stainless hooks will rust out relatively quickly, most often the barb which is the place on the hook with the least amount of metal will rust out first and the hook will fall out or be rubbed out by the fish. The water temperature & salt content aids in the rusting process, so in warmer, higher salt content waters, the hooks will rust faster than in a colder or lesser salt content environment.