kayaks vs. pontoons in moving water

[Bryon Anderson 0]

I am toying with the idea of replacing my pontoon craft with a kayak made for fly fishing. The one I have my eye on at present is the NuCanoe Frontier series, however I've only just started looking so I'm sure there are many others that would fit my needs as well. I am not very familiar with kayaks, having never used one, so I have a couple of questions, specifically with regard to river fishing:

 

1) I'm assuming that a kayak would be both swifter and more maneuverable in moving water than the pontoon. I'm aware that kayaks are a bit lighter than pontoons, and easier to transport. Are there any downsides to a kayak as compared to a pontoon that anyone knows of?

 

2) How hard is it to learn to maneuver a kayak through tight spots if, like me, you've never used one and are accustomed to rowing with oars as opposed to using the double-ended paddle?

 

Any insights that any of you may have would be much appreciated.

 

[natedubay 0]

Kayak problem: It doesn't deflate. Storage and transportation are an issue from time to time.

 

That being said, I love mine and duck hunt out of it too.

 

It will probably fit through tighter spots than the pontoon, double ended paddles aren't hard to learn.

You're going to be a hell of a lot faster than you used to be as well.

 

One thing about the paddle: Just make sure it's leashed to the boat. You'll realize why the first time you fight a fish.

 

 

If I was up your way still I'd let you take mine out for a spin. Bill and Pauls might rent them out. I think I remember seeing a fishing-type kayak in there at one time.

[RyanRuttan 0]

I'll never go back to kayaks.

 

1. Paddling is much easier on the pontoon because in a kayak the paddle needs a spot to sit when a fish bites. My kayak paddle was always an issue where as pontoon paddles you can just drop and they stay attached.

 

2. Pontoons to me have a much better balance

 

3. I find that pontoon are easier to get in and out of as well as in and out of the water. I can pack everything I need onto my pontoon and pick the whole thing up and go to the water from my parking spot. I found that with a kayak I was making more than one trip from the truck to the waters edge.

 

4. I would never anchor a kayak again... bad idea.

 

Is a little more speed in a kayak really worth it? My advice is go ahead and try it out... you can always sell it if you don't like it.

[utyer 0]

I have fished from an 8' Pontoon craft in both still and moving waters for years. My boat had oars (you will need them in moving water.)

 

Pontoons can be lighter than kayaks (or heavier,) depending on which models of each your looking at. My Frontier 12 is 70 pounds, and I can get it on top of my CRV. I have NOT used it in anything but still water so far. It is quite stable as a fishing platform, and for me it is a great fishing boat. There are lighter kayaks, some are more like canoes, but they do NOT drain water, and I wouldn't want to use them in swift rivers. The Old Town Predator is a little heavier at 76 pounds lighter at 48 pounds, and worth a look. I misread the first description of the Predatior, its 76 pounds not 48. You should NOT try and fish from either a pontoon or kayak while moving downstream in current EVER.

Why did I switch from a pontoon to a kayak?

 

Simple, in Florida, any water can have gators that can take a chunk out of you or your boat. An inflatable craft where your feet dangle in the water is NOT an option at least for me they're not.

 

The technique for rowing (pontoon,) or paddling (kayak,) will be quite different for moving water. Rowing a pontoon in a river is much like rowing a drift boat. You face down stream, and row back up or across and upstream to avoid obstructions. It is NEVER a good idea to hit an object in a current, its quite easy to just row away from them and drift on past them. I NEVER fish from the pontoon as I float a river, the boat is simply a means of transport to a spot or spots to fish on foot.

 

I have floated the Green and Snake Rivers in my pontoon for many years. Never had a problem.

 

I have used a kayak on the Snake only one time, and it was a very old inflatable kayak. When paddling down a river in kayak, I would paddle faster than the current to maneuver the yak. Steering the kayak away from obstructions and keeping to more quiet edges of the current. I was fishing, not looking for white water.

 

Most people would use a sit IN kayak floating rivers, and use a skirt to keep water out of the yak. Flipping is just part of the game. Knowing how to roll your kayak back upright is essential, and is a skill that you would need to learn FIRST.

 

The Nucanoe Frontier is a Sit On Top, and it does have scupper holes for drainage. I would use in moderate currents and waters like the upper Green, or Snake (South Fork,) or Madison. Any river I was intending to fish as I floated.

 

One thing I would do, is WEAR the life jacket at all times while in the kayak. Inflatable life vests are very easy to wear at all times. Be smart, and keep one on at all times in moving water.

 

If gators (and other things) that consider dangling feet as food are not a problem, I would stay with the Pontoon boats. Now that I have a kayak, I am comfortable enough with it to use it where ever I may go fishing.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

Thanks natedubay, RyanRuttan and utyer for your thoughtful responses--your insight is much appreciated.

 

My situation is this: I started considering a kayak mostly for fishing stillwaters as an alternative to my float tube, and I am 99% certain that I would prefer the kayak for stillwater fishing. Utyer, the NuCanoe Frontier 12 is precisely the boat I am considering, mainly for its stability (I am absolutely seduced by the idea of being able to stand and fish, and paddle to a new spot or to re-position the boat while still standing), but also for their versatility -- they appear to be almost endlessly customizable. I like the elevated swivel seats, the leaning bars for standing and fishing, and the paddle that will convert into a one-bladed standing paddle, a push pole, and a stake-out stake. Obviously I would need to try several boats before buying, but, as stability is probably my top priority in a kayak, I'm guessing the NuCanoe is going to win when the time comes.

 

The only reason I have to consider the kayak in moving water at all is the price. I had originally planned to keep my pontoon and just get the kayak for stillwater, but I also had no idea of the prices before I started looking around. My fishing budget dictates that a kayak purchase will require the sale of the pontoon. I can cozy up to that idea as long as I can find a kayak that I get along with and enjoy at least as much as I do my pontoon on rivers.

 

Where rivers are concerned, I have never even considered trying to fish from any boat that I also have to row or paddle. I've met me, and I know that's way too many tasks for me to attempt at once. Any boat I take on a river is strictly for floating from spot to spot. I float, I see fishy-looking water, I stop, tie up, fish, and move on. The rivers I fish are too twisty and full of wood to allow simultaneous fishing and floating anyway. I would never have the paddle in my hands when a fish struck in a river because I wouldn't even be in the boat, so that's a non-issue.

 

So...this is getting interesting. Thanks again guys for your replies. They were helpful.

 

Bryon

[utyer 0]

I think you will like the Frontier. I like mine. Midwest rivers should be fine in a kayak. Start on something big and slow. Launch and paddle up stream looking for the quiet water along the edges of the main current if you can. Learn how the boat handles as you come back to your launch point.

 

The biggest problem with any river float is the shuttle of cars and getting boats back to the starting point. Break down pontoons make it possible to load more boats into fewer vehicles and shuttles can be easier. It takes at least 3 people to do shuttles. One to stay with the boats, two to drive to the take out and leave one car, then one to drive back to the launch point. At the end of the day, reverse the process. If you don't mind thumbing, then you can do the shuttles with two people.

 

I carry my Nucanoe flat on the top of my CRV, so there is no room for me to transport a second kayak. Even with a pontoon, I could only get 2 in my car, but then I still had room for one on the roof.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

Utyer, the more I watch (videos) and read about it, the more I'm convinced I will like the Frontier, too, once I finally get to try one. I'm excited to do just that, although it will probably be a while yet.

 

Shuttles are a pain, especially for people like me who do most of their fishing alone. I usually end up forking over the $20-25 bucks to a fly shop to come and collect my car after I launch and drop it for me at my take-out. That works great when there's a fly shop near the river I'm going to, but that isn't always the case. For areas with no spotting services nearby, I recently built a transport system for my pontoon that features an "axle" made of PVC pipe outfitted with an easily-removable bicycle wheel on either end. The "axle" lies atop one of the pontoons and serves as a rod tube while floating and fishing. The wheels get bungee-corded to the cargo platform. As long as it's no more than a couple of miles by land from put-in to take-out, I can hoof it back to the car with the boat in tow without too much trouble, although it's not what I'd call fun.

[JSzymczyk 0]

There is good advice and not good advice in this thread. If you really want to FISH from your kayak you will learn to catch fish while doing all the things people have said they can't do such as securing your paddle and adjusting your position, and anchoring. Use your HEAD first and you'll be ok. Any kayak you would consider fishing from will be equipped with an anchor trolley and a paddle keeper, whether you buy it that way or do it yourself.

 

In this age there are still a lot, or most, people who don't know the difference between a kayak engineered from the keel up as a fishing machine - and the toy boats you see stacked up outside sport stores on sale for $199. I have a Wilderness Systems Ride135 which in flat water I stand and fly fish all the time. It is built as a fishing boat. The hull is designed to be EXTREMELY difficult to roll. Almost every time I go out I meet someone who tells me "oh I could never fish from a kayak, they're way too tippy for me." Whatever.

 

Downriver floats are always very fun, but I fish a lot in the Susquehanna and put in and take out at the same point all the time. Yeah, paddling back up stream can be strenuous. Kayak fishing can be a workout. That's part of the fun and all the more reason to stay in some kind of decent physical condition. I have a wrecked back, and damaged shoulders and I can still kayak fish all day, within reason.

 

Paddling and fishing a Sit-on-Top kayak, which is overwhelmingly the better choice for a fishing kayak, is wet work. You WILL get wet from paddling. That is why we have GoreTex. Again, use your HEAD first. I've broken through ice with my kayak to fish, and did it in dry, warm comfort. It's all part of the adventure.

 

There are many options for transport, including quick break-down carts which can be stowed in the front hatch of any decent fishing kayak- which can enable you to do more than you would believe with your kayak.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

JSzymczyk, I appreciate your insight as well. I agree with you that, in all endeavors, much good can be accomplished and much hassle avoided by simply putting in a bit of forethought. I am getting excited to join the world of the fishing kayak.

[troutguy 0]

Some kayak after thoughts:

 

Buy a skirt and never get wet. I winter and ocean fish.

 

Buy a good lightweight carbon paddle like Aqua Bound your arms will love you after a long trip.

 

Buy the bendable rubber paddle holders not the hard plastic ones. (slow learner I broke two sets before I switched.)

 

Rig your boat with a rod holder. Get the right one and they can be removed and covered with a rubber cover when not fishing.

 

Yakima makes a rack that holds 4 kayaks on a car top. I have one for a Nissan Sentra that I have to sell by the way. Hint.

 

Get a canoe or kayak type anchor and run a line through deck bungee loops (anchor trolley) to the front or rear of the kayak. This way you can drop and pull up anchor in a river. Also put a 20ft piece of rope on the front of the kayak. I often river fish with waders and get out and walk. I tie the kayak to the shore, rock, tree branch or me when I walk. I fish often when shorts are not an option.

 

You will have to paddle upstream at some point, how far and what current conditions is the real question. My Dagger is a fun boat, great fishing but paddling upstream or on flat lake water for any distance is like paddling a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood. I take the 17 foot Heron because it is sleek and paddles better. The Dagger floats in less water and is more forgiving on oyster beds. Try a boat before you buy. Look at Craig's list and paddle chat boards for used boats.

 

I have fished from my friends pontoon and another's float tube. The pontoon boat was big, weighed 65 pounds. Nice comfortable seating. It was tougher than my kayak to paddle in the wind. I could never have wanted to fish it in a river and have to paddle back upstream a mile to the truck. My Dagger Blackwater weighs 40 pounds. The float tube was nice in a pound, but it was tough in the wind. I would go to shore and walk back.

[Woodinfliezz 0]

http://www.amazon.com/Covers-Weave-Nylon-Handy-Inflatable/dp/B00062M8WU if you need transportation for a kayak check this out i have a field and stream Talon 12 and it carries it very well my only advice is dont leave it in the rain to long or the fabric will soak and you will have puddles in your floor boards (learned the hard way) either way i wouldnt be able to move my kayak with out this rack hope this helps to some extent as far as transportation

[Fox Mulder 0]

The NuCanoe is a very new thing at the moment. I would definitely classify it as canoe/kayak hybrid. I was able to get out on my buddy's and the two of us were able to fish simultaneously and I'm a big guy. These crafts are like swiss army knives and the options to customize them to your needs is almost endless. As long as transportation isn't a problem I'd say it's a no brainer to go with the NuCanoe. I have a pontoon and can't stand how my fly line wraps around this, that, and the other. Also, you'll eventually get that slow or major leak and have to deal with patching. You can also cut through the water with ease with a slimmer craft and navigate skinny water which opens up your options a lot. Here is his little write up on in that you may find useful from a satisfied customer. He's had no trouble in moving water and for still water fishing you can really cruise. Perhaps the best thing I noticed about it was the casting platform attachment. You can stand and stabilize yourself no problem.

 

http://trouterspace.com/2013/09/19/summer-bassin-nucanoe-frontier-12/

[Bryon Anderson 0]

Thanks Fox! I really enjoyed that write-up...had to chuckle at the pic of the Frontier 12 parked in moving water with a pontoon in the background...that pontoon happens to be the very make and model that I own, same color and everything. It was like a "before and after" pic for me.

 

Right now I'm torn between the NuCanoe Frontier 12 and the Wilderness Systems Ride 135 -- if money was no object I think I'd be all out for the NuCanoe. The Wilderness Systems boat isn't as customizable and doesn't offer a motor mount, but it is a very well-reviewed boat and the price tag for a new one with all the fishing goodies comes in several hundred dollars under the NuCanoe. However, both can be had used (the NuCanoe website even has a forum where people advertise used boats), so I might go that route to get a Frontier 12 to fit into my budget.

[Duffin Boy 0]

Go with the Frontier 12.

I have used one all season and I also have a W.S. Commander 120 both very stable boats but the Nucanoe is best for most conditions.

Tracks well, surprisingly nimble for a wide craft and so stable you can stand and jump in it.

While not the fastest I had no trouble keeping up to the Commander and if I am in a big hurry I can use the Minn Kota to get where I am going. It was great to stand and pole through the flat and sight fish.

Lots of room and no end to rigging ideas for any activity (there is a blind to allow you to stand and hunt.)

 

Customer service is topnotch and responsive.

 

My experience anyway.

 

DuFf

[Flat Rock native 0]

I am toying with the idea of replacing my pontoon craft with a kayak made for fly fishing. The one I have my eye on at present is the NuCanoe Frontier series, however I've only just started looking so I'm sure there are many others that would fit my needs as well. I am not very familiar with kayaks, having never used one, so I have a couple of questions, specifically with regard to river fishing:

 

1) I'm assuming that a kayak would be both swifter and more maneuverable in moving water than the pontoon. I'm aware that kayaks are a bit lighter than pontoons, and easier to transport. Are there any downsides to a kayak as compared to a pontoon that anyone knows of?

 

2) How hard is it to learn to maneuver a kayak through tight spots if, like me, you've never used one and are accustomed to rowing with oars as opposed to using the double-ended paddle?

 

Any insights that any of you may have would be much appreciated.

As you can now see from the posts, apples and oranges. That being said, I have some experience as the owner of a single-seat pontoon and two tandem, sit-on-top kayaks. What weather and water conditions will you primarily encounter on the majority of excursions.

 

The pontoon will excel in swifter waters or windy conditions and is the most comfortable seating platform.

 

The kayak will be more useful in slower waters or calm conditions on lakes and ponds or where you have to row-paddle a large distance before you get to your optimal fishing spots.

 

For totally still water applications, with little currents or little wind, nothing beats a Hobie Outfitter with a pedal drive, for fly-fishing, as your hands are free most of the time to fish and you are using leg muscles (generally much more powerful than arms) to propel.

 

But as long as one is spending time fishing, HEY, (this) one does not care about the watercraft in play.