MikeV 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 I have a (probably crazy) idea for an interesting pupa pattern, and am hoping to find some thin (maybe 1mm) sinking or neutral density foam in various natural colors, to help make it happen. Since it's a pupa it would have to sink, and it would be easier if I didn't have to incorporate a lot of lead to fight the buoyancy of floating foam. Anyone know if such a sinking/neutral density foam material exists in the tying world? I've looked around but most tying foam seems to proudly state how high it floats. Thanks in advance for any help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 Does it have to be foam? Can you use latex sheet, thin skin or equivalent materials? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevester 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 Foam is lighter than water by design. It is air bubbles trapped in plastic polymer. If you want something that is neutrally buoyant you need something with few or no air bubbles entrained in the matrix. Flytire made a good suggestion. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tailing looper 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 I used to buy foam panfish bugs when I was a teenager that were available in normal, closed-cell foam and also in a sort of open-cell foam. The open-cell foam bugs could be squeezed dry to float or squeezed under the water to saturate them and make them neutral density. They looked a little rougher than the closed-cell foam bugs... more like sponge (which is nature's open-cell foam). There must be some source for the stuff.... Tight lines, Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlaFly 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 Another possible alternative might be felt???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BBBruce77 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 Larva Lace wet fly foam, if you can find it. I have not looked in 16 or more years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crackaig 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 If you used 2mm craft foam and wind it tight enough it will be about 1mm thick and sink quickly. The foam part of foam is much denser than water. Its the trapped air that makes it less dense. Remove the air and it will sink. Stretching it enough to reduce it's thickness by 50% should be enough to do that. Cheers, C. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
utyer 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 If you want to try the Larva Lace wet fly foam, it is still available from Hagens. The razor foam (1, and .5mm thick,) should also work. As mentioned, when wrapped tightly, the foam will compress and not have much buoyancy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 http://www.bearlodgeangler.com/foam-products/larva-lace-dry-wet-fly-open-cell-foam-pre-sliced/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheech 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 If you used 2mm craft foam and wind it tight enough it will be about 1mm thick and sink quickly. The foam part of foam is much denser than water. Its the trapped air that makes it less dense. Remove the air and it will sink. Stretching it enough to reduce it's thickness by 50% should be enough to do that.Cheers, C. Bingo. I'd use 1mm and wrap it as the body. The fly will absolutely not float. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeV 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2014 Thanks for the thoughts guys. Yes, foam is lighter than water by design...if it's designed to float. The air trapped in its cells (open or closed) would have to be lighter than the material making up the cell walls, but again I believe most closed cell foam is intended to float, so the cells are "sized" accordingly.My design doesn't call for compressing the foam, so unfortunately I can't use that trick.I could use something besides foam, Flytire, if I can work with it. And Bob, yes I did consider pre-saturating it, and it's a good idea...but I'm kinda hoping to find something that will sink quickly even after a bunch of back-casts.Latex...I'd have to have a look at it. Felt...terrific idea FlaFly, in more ways than one. It might work very well. As soon as the hook and current pull it under, it ought to go on down.I've heard of Larva Lace but have never used it. Hagens & Bear Lodge...tnx Bruce, Utyer & Flytire. I see they have white and black. Let's see if I can find something in a tan...and maybe I'll try the felt idea.Thanks guys. First thing I've learned is that it's not a common thing to be hunting for. I'll try some outside-the-box ideas. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevester 0 Report post Posted May 14, 2014 Another option would be chamois. Or the leather based material that Chuck Furimsky sells, Bug Skin I believe. You can color chamois with markers, Bug Skin comes in a number colors. You will have to soak it for a minute or so when you start fishing but it won't dry during casting. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Istripbuggers 0 Report post Posted May 14, 2014 I used to buy foam panfish bugs when I was a teenager that were available in normal, closed-cell foam and also in a sort of open-cell foam. The open-cell foam bugs could be squeezed dry to float or squeezed under the water to saturate them and make them neutral density. They looked a little rougher than the closed-cell foam bugs... more like sponge (which is nature's open-cell foam). There must be some source for the stuff.... Tight lines, Bob I think your thinking of evazote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheech 0 Report post Posted May 14, 2014 I used to buy foam panfish bugs when I was a teenager that were available in normal, closed-cell foam and also in a sort of open-cell foam. The open-cell foam bugs could be squeezed dry to float or squeezed under the water to saturate them and make them neutral density. They looked a little rougher than the closed-cell foam bugs... more like sponge (which is nature's open-cell foam). There must be some source for the stuff.... Tight lines, Bob I think your thinking of evazote Evazote is still a closed cell foam. Just a bit different material than craft foam. In my experience, it's much more buoyant than craft foam, but a little bit less durable. It won't absorb water if compressed. I did an experiment when I was developing my "unsinkabeetle" pattern (tied mostly of evazote). I filled a bowl of water and tossed the fly in. I would push the fly under water and squeeze the fly (trying to squish any air out of the foam) every time I walked past it. It floated, and shot right back to the surface after dunking for two straight weeks before I deemed it unsinkable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeV 0 Report post Posted May 14, 2014 Another option would be chamois. Or the leather based material that Chuck Furimsky sells, Bug Skin I believe. You can color chamois with markers, Bug Skin comes in a number colors. You will have to soak it for a minute or so when you start fishing but it won't dry during casting. Steve Good suggestions Steve; I'll check them out. The ability to use markers will also be a plus, as I suspect the pattern I need won't be available off the shelf. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites