Elk & Deer Hair Caddis pattern wing question

[wschmitt3 0]

Why are elk and deer hair patterns tied with the hair wing extending only to the end of the body?

 

Most if not all of the caddis flies I've found on my screen and caught with my bug net seem to have a wing that extends a quarter or third of a body length past the end of their body.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this--I believe that on the Elk Hair Caddis and similar patterns with flared hair wings, the flared hair is supposed to imitate fluttering wings, like the fish would see if a natural was trying to lift off the water before getting eaten. On patterns meant to be fished in quiet, slow, clear water, the wing is usually made of duck or turkey quill, and it does extend past the end of the body.

 

[whatfly 0]

Have wondered that often myself. "Convention" or "tradition" might be one answer. Another might be to reduce fluttering when cast. There are patterns where the wing extends further, but rarely as far as one sees in the naturals. I have never seen anyone answer this question specifically, but I think it is often forgotten that fly patterns are more often than not driven by 'what works' as opposed to 'what is' in the sense that impression is more important than imitation as long as it is effective.

[Piker20 0]

I like them to come to the end of the bend. I find they float well and prefer there not to be relatively stiff material poking out too far which may reduce chances of hooking up.

[Grandpa41 0]

In my opinion it would depend on the pattern, ie... Goddard vs Elk Hair or the tier's appeal. Some wingless deer hair Goddard caddis are shaped to look as if it has a wing beyond the hook bend with a bushy tail. Some Goddards even have no tail, just trimmed stacked hair to the hook point. I love a good surface caddis hatch more than any dry mayfly. The spooky trout will inspect a slow floating mayfly much more closely than a caddis skimming the surface. Their window of opportunity is more limited. When they trigger on a mayfly they may choose color, shape, or size but the caddis skimming (take off or laying eggs) on the surface is usually triggered by movement. At least that is my experience. Most tiers tie more for human appeal than fish appeal. Me for one, most of the time. I've used a bushy looking Stimulator in a skimming caddis hatch quite effectively even though it represents a stonefly. I just tie them the way I like best... long winged deer hair Goddards and a short winged Elk Hair. Both look good to a fish, and to me. On a humor side, Piker20. I thought your bible quote was questionable.

 

Matthew 25:35-36 actually reads... "35: For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me. 36: I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." I like yours much better though.

[flytire 0]

Tie some up with a longer wing and let the fish decide!

[hairwing 0]

One of the early guides for tyers to proportion their hairwing flies is given in the book "Fly Tying" by Sturgis.

Sturgis recommends the wing extend one gape past the point where the hook bends. This proportion has always pleased my eye and it is the one I use....and I think many who followed his instruction would probably agree.

The wings tied this way make a nice near'nuff body cover for downwing flies and makes for a good gauge tying from one hook size to another. Realistically exact replicas of the actual flies we imitate is impractical...we'd never get any fishing in, all our time would be spent tying and arguing over dimensions of the actual insect.

[wschmitt3 0]

I have been tying them with the wing extending them past the wing per some instruction in some book or pattern recipe I found a while back and they work, I guess the word would be ... okay. Since the caddis flies (zebra and little black ones) have been coming off lately in big numbers and I have been looking at them closely questions about proportions came to mind. And today I was looking at some I purchased a while back and some pictures I saw online and my wings don't look like they do. They look a little longer but now that I have taken a second look I guess they are actually pretty close.

 

 

[wschmitt3 0]

Thanks every one for the replies.

[SilverCreek 0]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this--I believe that on the Elk Hair Caddis and similar patterns with flared hair wings, the flared hair is supposed to imitate fluttering wings, like the fish would see if a natural was trying to lift off the water before getting eaten. On patterns meant to be fished in quiet, slow, clear water, the wing is usually made of duck or turkey quill, and it does extend past the end of the body.

 

 

Exactly correct for the EHCs that are tied with a high wing profile.

 

That is why the EHC is hackled. Current versions are a fast water fly that imitates both a fluttering caddis and the fish get a poor view of the fly so the fish do NOT have the time to carefully examine the fly. Slow water caddis are most effect when tied a tent wing rather than a flared wing.

 

HOWEVER, these so called EHCs are NOT a faithful representation of Al Troth's original pattern. When the EHC was invented by Al Troth, he specifically stated that the fly should be tied with hair that did not flair so that it had a flatter profile.

 

Why is the EHC is not in the Gary LaFontaine's "Caddisflies"? The reason is that the EHC, as it is most often tied, is not a very realistic caddis fly pattern. Most EHC pattern are tied with hollow hair which flairs. When tied, this hair will flair up and form a wing that extend up over the body rather than down flat as a real caddis fly.

Al Troth, when he first published his EHC, noted that it should be tied with hair that did not flair, but this type of hair is difficult to find especially for smaller patterns and now virtually every EHC now is tied with a prominent flared wing.

Gary Lafontaine makes the following observation about the dry fly patterns in his book, "There are some notable absences in the selections. There are no patterns with upright wings. This type generally recommended as an imitation of a fluttering caddisfly is not very effective when trout are feeding selectively, even if the adults are fluttering. When the natural begins unfolding its wings it usually flies off very quickly and such a transitory moment is not worth imitating. The tent wing fly is usually better because it imitates the insect at rest."

The second caddis bible is Larry Solomon and Eric Leiser's "The Caddis and the Angler" published in 1977. "The Caddis and the Angler" has the elk hair caddis pattern on pg 200. You will notice that the hair on the pattern is tent like and does NOT flair much. See below for Al Troth's original EHC:

During an interview with Al Troth before his death, Al's son talks about his father's EHC. Go to 5:35 in the video below and you will see the EHC as it is meant to be tied. The photo taken from the video is below. Note that the hair extends behind the body and has a flatter profile than the EHCs that are currently tied.