hackle

[streamtrout 0]

Saddle vs capes for dry flies. Wich is better

[tidewaterfly 0]

No better to either. Depends on what sizes you need to tie. Generally capes provide a wider range of sizes, but a good saddle will often tie more flies in a given range. As an example, a saddle might tie more flies in say sizes 12 & 14 because a single feather might tie a couple of flies , while a cape will have less hackles in those sizes & usually only tie a single fly per hackle. All depends on the quality of each too, so this is all generally speaking about the better grades.

[flytire 0]

both are perfect for dry flies

 

saddle if youre tying mass quantity of one size

 

cape if youre tying multiple sizes

[streamtrout 0]

How many sizes does a saddle have?

[utyer 0]

Most saddles will have 3 sizes. Smaller sizes along the edges, and a larger size in the center. Some may have 4 sizes, but the only way to know it to shop them in person. If you order on-line, specify what size range you would want in the saddle. At best, you could get a saddle with size 16, 18 along the sides, and 14 and maybe 12 in the center. I often use the short hackles on a saddle, but you will get only one fly per hackle from these short feathers. The short feathers will also usually be longer.

 

As for the number of flies per hackle, plan on at least two flies per feather in even the largest sizes. On small sizes, you can get a lot more. I have one dun saddle that is good for flies from 16 to 22. I can get up to 10 flies from each feather.

 

Necks are what you want if your tying from the very largest (think poppers,) down to the very smallest dry flies. If your tying mostly in a small range of sizes, you can get more flies in that range from a saddle than you would from a neck.

[Crackaig 0]

As the others have said there is no better or worse. Many years ago A K Best wouldn't use saddle feathers for dries as, he said, they cause the fly to spin more when cast. However, that was a good number of years ago. The breeders have been working on improving their stock, I've not noticed any difference in this respect between neck and saddle.

 

There is only one reason I use saddles. Cost. As a production tier I will buy a saddle to tie one or two sizes of a fly and expect to reduce it to a patch of skin within a year. That is several thousand of one or two sizes of a fly. I usually have several of each colour on the go at one time to cover different sizes. Most people tying for themselves and their friends will want a range of sizes in one colour, a neck, and will give them that. It does mean that each fly is a little more expensive to tie, but would you like my hackle bill?

Cheers,

C.

[shoebop 0]

You have to be more specific than "dry flies". But here is an attempt to answer your question. A cape comes from the neck and breast of the rooster. The saddle comes from the back. Thus, the saddle area. The cape will have the long skinny hackles on it that are used on many smaller dry flies. Depending on the cape, it may have sizes of 24 to 18 or 18 to 14 or...You really have to look it over to see. A saddle will have the larger hackle feathers on the bird. They may be as small as 12 or 14 or as large as 2.

[whatfly 0]

All else being equal, saddles are superior because of the number of flies you can tie with a single feather. As other have pointed out, if you add size to the equation, the answer is not as clear cut if you tie a wide range of sizes. No reason why you could not split the difference and get a half saddle in your most prominent range, and a half cape for the big/little stuff. Good luck.

[SilverCreek 0]

Cape hackle has less of a curve than saddle hackle and cape hackles are a bit stiffer. So if cost was no issue, I strongly believe that capes tie better dry flies.

 

HOWEVER, I tie my dries with saddles because they are so much cheaper than capes and dollar for dollar, saddles tie more flies although in fewer sizes. My belief is that saddles are good enough and that I would never use the extremely small and extremely large hackles in a cape, so a cape would have more "wasted" hackle vs a saddle. I buy saddles in a specific size range because I know I WILL use the ALL the useable hackle on a saddle but not on a cape.

 

My recommendation is to NOT buy the best grades in capes or saddles. I look through the pro grade saddles and there are some amazing saddles that did not make the grade because of relatively minor imperfections. Honestly, I have found some "pro" grade saddles that I have no idea why they were downgraded to a pro grade from a silver or bronze grade. I believe that graders make mistakes and I benefit when I can CAREFULLY go through the saddles myself looking for what is important to me.

 

Basically, I am grading the hackle for the flies I tie, and the graders do not necessarily do that. For example, if I am looking for a grizzly and a brown saddle to tie mainly size 14 Adams, I don't care if the saddle does NOT have enough of the size 16 hackles to make a silver grade saddle.

 

 

[Christopher K 0]

Cape hackle has less of a curve than saddle hackle and cape hackles are a bit stiffer. So if cost was no issue, I strongly believe that capes tie better dry flies.

 

HOWEVER, I tie my dries with saddles because they are so much cheaper than capes and dollar for dollar, saddles tie more flies although in fewer sizes. My belief is that saddles are good enough and that I would never use the extremely small and extremely large hackles in a cape, so a cape would have more "wasted" hackle vs a saddle. I buy saddles in a specific size range because I know I WILL use the ALL the useable hackle on a saddle but not on a cape.

 

My recommendation is to NOT buy the best grades in capes or saddles. I look through the pro grade saddles and there are some amazing saddles that did not make the grade because of relatively minor imperfections. Honestly, I have found some "pro" grade saddles that I have no idea why they were downgraded to a pro grade from a silver or bronze grade. I believe that graders make mistakes and I benefit when I can CAREFULLY go through the saddles myself looking for what is important to me.

 

Basically, I am grading the hackle for the flies I tie, and the graders do not necessarily do that. For example, if I am looking for a grizzly and a brown saddle to tie mainly size 14 Adams, I don't care if the saddle does NOT have enough of the size 16 hackles to make a silver grade saddle.

 

 

Remember that whiting grades their saddles not by the actual qualities of the feather but by feather count instead.

[SilverCreek 0]

 

Cape hackle has less of a curve than saddle hackle and cape hackles are a bit stiffer. So if cost was no issue, I strongly believe that capes tie better dry flies.

 

HOWEVER, I tie my dries with saddles because they are so much cheaper than capes and dollar for dollar, saddles tie more flies although in fewer sizes. My belief is that saddles are good enough and that I would never use the extremely small and extremely large hackles in a cape, so a cape would have more "wasted" hackle vs a saddle. I buy saddles in a specific size range because I know I WILL use the ALL the useable hackle on a saddle but not on a cape.

 

My recommendation is to NOT buy the best grades in capes or saddles. I look through the pro grade saddles and there are some amazing saddles that did not make the grade because of relatively minor imperfections. Honestly, I have found some "pro" grade saddles that I have no idea why they were downgraded to a pro grade from a silver or bronze grade. I believe that graders make mistakes and I benefit when I can CAREFULLY go through the saddles myself looking for what is important to me.

 

Basically, I am grading the hackle for the flies I tie, and the graders do not necessarily do that. For example, if I am looking for a grizzly and a brown saddle to tie mainly size 14 Adams, I don't care if the saddle does NOT have enough of the size 16 hackles to make a silver grade saddle.

 

 

Remember that whiting grades their saddles not by the actual qualities of the feather but by feather count instead.

 

 

I think that is incorrect.

 

Whiting considers feather count but a consistent size range which I noted in my post is a part of the grading system as noted below. Hackle length and coloration are also considerations so if a saddle hackle is not uniformly long or the exact consistent shade it is down graded and this "defect" in the pro grade does not bother me since a pro grade can be bought for half the cost of a premium grade. It is the cost per fly that is the most important factor:

 

http://www.whitingfarms.com/articles/grading.html

 

Making the Grade

How is a pelt determined to be a bronze, silver, gold or better? Once the quality of the feather is determined to pass the grade (see above), several factors are observed to categorize each pelt. In summary, a few key elements quickly raise the value of a pelt from bronze, to silver to gold. Factors such as useable feather length, uniformity of feather length, barb stiffness, size range in the entire pelt, stem condition, feather quantity, consistent coloration, and more are all looked at to determine grade. In all, there are more than 25 elements that are taken into consideration when grading a pelt. It’s a good bet that if a pelt is densely feathered, offers a wide size range and the feathers have long, usable dry fly portions, the pelt will grade out rather high, maybe even a gold or better.

[Crackaig 0]

I was once told, I don't know if it is true, that Pro grade is determined by too many broken hackle tips, it can be any grade otherwise. That's fine by me as the fine tips of genetic cock hackles are too fine for making wings, so end up in the bin anyway.

 

Cheers,

C.

[SilverCreek 0]

I cannot confirm the broken tips, but I have not noted broken hackle tips. I'll have to check.

 

As an aside, I have bought a grizzly saddle with clipped tips that were used to tie the standard Adams. I bought one of these at a fly fishing expo from a bin of mixed non-branded saddle hackles. I think it was $15.00. Bargains do exist if you take the time to examine feathers. I also bought a decent grizzly saddle at a Cabela's under the Jay Fair's label.

[Al Beatty 0]

Hi group,

 

As already stated saddles have a narrower range of sizes while capes have a wider range. We tie almost all of our commercial flies using saddles because we can purchase by size. With a cape we usually have left over sizes in the very high and low ends of the scale. If you have a use for the wider range of sizes we would recommend tying with capes but be aware you have more larger feathers than you do smaller. We think your best purchase of dry fly hackle is packets of Whiting 100s because you can select the sizes you want with no waste. We put packets of the 100s in our travel tying kits. For our day-to-day work we work right out of a saddle pelt. Take care & ...