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barrytheguide

What makes the Law so good?

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I'm considering a new vice. I have a Rezetti Master. I know it's good, but as a guide I would like to try a upgrade for tying nymphs. The Law has a very high reputation but I can't afford one even if I could find one. I have been considering the J vice with the Damascus jaws. The other option is the CAE engineering version of the LAW which looks very well made and very similar to the LAW. I also know of the Snowbee/ LAW, which is readily available , but not the same as the original LAW. So what makes the LaW so good? Or is one of my other options just as good for my needs?

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Get a LAW. You'll find one, and you deserve it. You mustn't settle for less! Good nymphs cannot be tied on anything other than a LAW.

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I don't understand collecting. Its just a drive I don't have. I say that so you will understand where I am coming from. It isn't worth £2K However, that's nearly 4 1/2 times the original price. It represented good value at that price, which put it in the price range of most top level vices. It wasn't the most expensive. (I think that accolade went to the Abel).

 

There is one thing that trumps everything else for me when choosing a vice. Access to the hook. Of all the vices I've used the LAW is by far the best in this respect. The original specification for it was written by Hans Weilenmann. There is no compromise in it, all the materials are the best available for the job they do.

 

Prior to the LAW I was tying on a Barracuda so that is a comparison I can make first hand. Something like 70% of all the flies I tie are size 16 or smaller, therefore most of the time I had the Barracuda fitted with midge jaws. Well that is a job I haven't had to do in the 9+ years I've used the LAW. The one set of jaws does everything. As a production tier I put a lot of hooks through a vice, the midge jaws lasted me 9 to 12 months a set. (I know they have a 2 year warranty, but If you use the vice more in a year than most will in five, is it right to claim on the warranty?) Had I continued using the Barracuda, I would have used enough sets of midge jaws to pay for it a second time. The cost to me of that vice would have been much more than the original price of the LAW. In that respect it represented good value.

 

On every other rotary vice I have used the tension adjustment for rotation has been by a screw acting on the rotating shaft. That means that the adjustment from locked to free is in less than 1/4 turn of this screw. That makes precise adjustment impossible. The LAW uses a taper mechanism that gives over two turns of adjustment. Making precise adjustment simple.

 

In a very subjective way, there is a great pleasure in using a tool that is well designed, and functions. That is something I can not express in words. Perhaps it is just that the vice isn't working against me in any way.

 

I'm unable to really compare it as I have only tied a couple of flies on a Renzetti Master. I have no idea how much of an upgrade it would be. That is why I like my LAW so much.

 

What are you looking for in the tying of nymphs that the Renzetti doesn't give you?

 

There is one thing that strikes me in all the debates about vices. A better vice (like any tool) will make what you are doing easier to do. It will not improve your tying. Anyone who thinks that it will would get more benefit by using the money to take time off work, and do nothing but tie for that time. If you can't tie a fly on a £100 vice you will not be able to tie it on a LAW at £2000. £2000 represents 4 weeks average wage here. Taking 4 weeks off to practice tying will do more for your tying than spending the money on a LAW.

 

If you still want to get a new vice take a look at the Petitjean. It is worth considering along side the vices you mention.

 

Cheers,

C.

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Barry,

 

I know you can afford a Law. You will always wonder what makes a Law the best vise.

 

The Renzetti Master is fantastic, you have a great vise. I prefer the Nor-Vise myself.

 

Are you still living near Redding? If so, I might be up there in October for the egg hatch and could bring a Law with me for you to play with. I can also bring a J-Vise for comparison.

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I don't understand collecting. Its just a drive I don't have. I say that so you will understand where I am coming from. It isn't worth £2K However, that's nearly 4 1/2 times the original price. It represented good value at that price, which put it in the price range of most top level vices. It wasn't the most expensive. (I think that accolade went to the Abel).

 

There is one thing that trumps everything else for me when choosing a vice. Access to the hook. Of all the vices I've used the LAW is by far the best in this respect. The original specification for it was written by Hans Weilenmann. There is no compromise in it, all the materials are the best available for the job they do.

 

Prior to the LAW I was tying on a Barracuda so that is a comparison I can make first hand. Something like 70% of all the flies I tie are size 16 or smaller, therefore most of the time I had the Barracuda fitted with midge jaws. Well that is a job I haven't had to do in the 9+ years I've used the LAW. The one set of jaws does everything. As a production tier I put a lot of hooks through a vice, the midge jaws lasted me 9 to 12 months a set. (I know they have a 2 year warranty, but If you use the vice more in a year than most will in five, is it right to claim on the warranty?) Had I continued using the Barracuda, I would have used enough sets of midge jaws to pay for it a second time. The cost to me of that vice would have been much more than the original price of the LAW. In that respect it represented good value.

 

On every other rotary vice I have used the tension adjustment for rotation has been by a screw acting on the rotating shaft. That means that the adjustment from locked to free is in less than 1/4 turn of this screw. That makes precise adjustment impossible. The LAW uses a taper mechanism that gives over two turns of adjustment. Making precise adjustment simple.

 

In a very subjective way, there is a great pleasure in using a tool that is well designed, and functions. That is something I can not express in words. Perhaps it is just that the vice isn't working against me in any way.

 

I'm unable to really compare it as I have only tied a couple of flies on a Renzetti Master. I have no idea how much of an upgrade it would be. That is why I like my LAW so much.

 

What are you looking for in the tying of nymphs that the Renzetti doesn't give you?

 

There is one thing that strikes me in all the debates about vices. A better vice (like any tool) will make what you are doing easier to do. It will not improve your tying. Anyone who thinks that it will would get more benefit by using the money to take time off work, and do nothing but tie for that time. If you can't tie a fly on a £100 vice you will not be able to tie it on a LAW at £2000. £2000 represents 4 weeks average wage here. Taking 4 weeks off to practice tying will do more for your tying than spending the money on a LAW.

 

If you still want to get a new vice take a look at the Petitjean. It is worth considering along side the vices you mention.

 

Cheers,

C.

The Renzetti Master is a good vice. The problem being the jaws are very large. It's great for salt water flies, but small tying nymphs the jaws seem to get in the way. And they do not offer a midge set for it!

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If I remember correctly the Damascus jaws for the J vise are not midge jaws either. They do a set of midge jaws though that look good. The Petitjean also will suit smaller flies.

 

If you are ever in Scotland you can put your curiosity to rest by tying on mine, but sorry, it's not for sale.

 

Cheers,

C.

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Barry,

I know you can afford a Law. You will always wonder what makes a Law the best vise.

The Renzetti Master is fantastic, you have a great vise. I prefer the Nor-Vise myself.

Are you still living near Redding? If so, I might be up there in October for the egg hatch and could bring a Law with me for you to play with. I can also bring a J-Vise for comparison.

I would love to try a LAW, but I just can't afford it!

I'm still fishing on the Lower Sac, but these days I'm basically retired but I do fish with old clients.

I missed the "Egg hatch " last winter since I was in Mexico. Loved it down there, butt I'm looking forward to the winter in Redding.

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Barry,

I know you can afford a Law. You will always wonder what makes a Law the best vise.

The Renzetti Master is fantastic, you have a great vise. I prefer the Nor-Vise myself.

Are you still living near Redding? If so, I might be up there in October for the egg hatch and could bring a Law with me for you to play with. I can also bring a J-Vise for comparison.

I would love to try a LAW, but I just can't afford it!

I'm still fishing on the Lower Sac, but these days I'm basically retired but I do fish with old clients.

I missed the "Egg hatch " last winter since I was in Mexico. Loved it down there, butt I'm looking forward to the winter in Redding.

Great! I'll pm you for an address before I go.. I could FEDEX the vises for you to use for a week and pick them up when I go fishing. I have a friend with a drift boat that I fish with. He use to work out of the same shop as you did. I usually fish the USac with him.

However, a friend just moved to Oregon, so I may end meeting up with him instead. Either way, I'll be driving North on 5 and can pick up the vises.

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"Good nymphs cannot be tied on anything other than a LAW."

?????????

Think it was kinda sarcasm...

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I, in no way need, want, or would benefit from having a LAW vise. Chase Creek is absolutely correct. A better tennis racket, golf club, or fly rod will not make a hack better at the game of their choice. One can not buy skills. Skills are earned.

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The Renzetti Master does have a midge jaw option available.

 

I have several friends who use the LAW vise, tried it however,,, I much prefer the Renzetti Master.

 

It is all about personal preference, changing the vice design is fun but does not make for better fly.

 

Regards,

FK

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The Renzetti Master does have a midge jaw option available.

I have several friends who use the LAW vise, tried it however,,, I much prefer the Renzetti Master.

It is all about personal preference, changing the vice design is fun but does not make for better fly.

Regards,

FK

Thanks for the info, I'll check my serial number and see if it's compatible with the Renzetti Midge jaws

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Yes, it was a futile attempt at sarcasm. I would hope no one...including barrytheguide...took it with any sincerity.

 

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