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Obi

How important is the exac hackle-color?

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Substitution is a must. When I have made my purchases of hackle I intentionally tried to get hackle that would work for as many colors as possible.

 

I just looked at Davie McPhail's video on the Kite's Imperial. If it were me I would use Dark Barred Ginger (one of my favorites) and Goose Quill (a new material to me and I like it very much for a nice segmented body)

 

Do what ever works for you. Don't get too hung up on making it textbook perfect just get the proportions and colors as close to correct as possible.

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This is a March brown with ginger hackle I did not have brown in the right size. It's not bad to sub out hackle colors. As long as it is close and the naturals. Naturals have variance in colors all the time.

 

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Not too much to add to the above, but a couple of observations. Oliver Kite was a well known author, fly tier and TV fishing personality a number of years ago (he passed away at a fairly young age). Obviously he was brought up in the UK traditions of tying and used materials that were available which at the time including heron. You UK guys can add more historical details as you most likely have more extensive experience with his work than I do.

 

If your fly is a little different in color from most of the naturals it can sometimes help highlighting it. This can be a double edged sword if the fish are really attuned to a particular color, but is normally not an issue, especially on slightly broken water.

 

Steve

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I once saw a chart on mixing hackle to gain various different colours, sorry I don't recall exactly where, I think it was Fly Fishing & Fly Tying magazine. For honey dun a dun feather wound with badger or pale ginger would be a good sub. For the heron sub look for "Condor Sub" dyed grey, these are usually white turkey tail feathers dyed.

 

Matching the exact colour isn't that important in fishing flies. The only time I would be bothered is for a historically correct display fly. Even the originators change the hackle on their patterns. Early descriptions of the Greenwell's Glory say a red game hackle with a black centre. Later in a letter Cannon Greenwell described the hackle as coch-i-bhonddu (will someone who speaks Welsh please tell us the correct spelling) [ref: Courtney Williams, A Dictionary of Trout Flies]. Which is red game with black centre and tips.

 

Natural insects vary greatly. The same insect hatching together will vary slightly in colour, nature doesn't often produce carbon copies. Look at a litter of puppies, the colouration will vary from one to another. Why would insects be different? Also there are those who speculate that fish take a fly not because it is the same as the insects they are feeding on, but because it is different.

 

Mark, for your Water Hen Bloa try a jackdaw scalp feather, indistinguishable from water hen. Also mole isn't a good sub. It is the same texture, and colour, as water rat, but the staple length is too short for the dubbing technique to work. Muskrat under fur, with ALL the guard hairs removed, is a much better sub.

 

Cheers,

C.

 

p.s. Yes I do have heron and honey dun. If a customer asks for Imperials that's what they get. The first flies I tied for the person who is now my biggest customer were Imperials (in the days before he owned a fly shop). Really glad I took the trouble to get them right.

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Dear all,

 

Thanks a bunch for all your Responses so far - some good Points brought up here for sure.

 

I am actually not so obsessed about the Kite's Imperial. In fact, my fishing Buddy brought that question up and I told him it 'll be difficult to follow the material-list. For me, the Kite's Imperial is just a good example. If you read about the history of this dry fly, you'll find things like: Kite was very specific about the honey-dun color of the hackle........... or similar (don't recall the exact wording!!)

 

It's just a similar situation as with other historical patterns, such as the famous Killer Bug. The topic about the Chatwick 477 voodo-yarn was discussed back and forth here already, I 'm sure. It's all about the materials that were available to the originator of a particular pattern at the Point in time when it was 1st tied, right?

 

I strongly believe that a trout could never tell the difference between a barred ginger hackle and a silver badger one from its position at the river bed..... The fish could probably differentiate between a dark color and light color hackle at it's best.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Obi

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Great comments to this point, and thanks for the original post, Obi.

 

To further the discussion, I attempt to use a barred hackle on as many of my dry flies as possible. From grizzly to barred dun and ginger, I like the effect that the barring has, and buy into the "lifeability" that it exhibits on patterns, especially emergers. Do fish believe that the barring suggests movement of the fly? That's a great question without an answer now, but when I'm purchasing hackle, I tend to gravitate towards the barred capes and saddles.

 

TC

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TC I really suspect you are onto something there. I am also a fan of barred hackles. On my hawthorne and heather fly patterns I use grizzle rather than black, for the same reasons you state.

 

Cheers,

C.

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I tie my flys in as many different colers and sizes as I can and if I don't have a certain material I sub something else in, and sometimes that fly catches more fish than the original lol

Sorry but when I read this response the drill seargent from Full Metal Jacket poped into my head:

 

This is my Fly. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My Fly is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My Fly, without me, is useless. Without my Fly, I am useless. I must cast my Fly true. I must cast straighter than my rise who is trying to out smart me. I must cast first before he does. My Fly and I know that what counts in fishing is not the fish we catch, the length of our drift, nor the leader we make. We know that it is the presentation that counts..... This is my fly. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Tight Lines! Jay

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Jay, the Rifleman's Creed from the Marine Corps was around long before "Full Metal Jacket" came out. But nicely twisted, I must say.

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I'm in agreement with most everyone here. I don't think the exact color of the hackle is that important. I tie my callibaetis duns with both grizzly and medium dun hackle and they both seem to work well. Who knows what triggers a trout's feeding response? One other factor is the type of water you are fishing. If you are fishing a fast moving stream where the fish have to make a split second decision about eating your fly, I would seriously doubt if hackle color would make any difference. However, if you are fishing a crystal clear lake where fish get a good look at your fly, it's conceivable (although I still have my doubts) that hackle color could make some difference. Of course, I'm assuming that the hackle you use is somewhat close to what the recipe calls for.

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To respond to the original question, I always try to match a pattern as best as possible but do keep in the back of my mind that the availability of materials and geographic location play a big part in the end product. I tend to also consider the founding fathers (and my father & grandfather) as they created flies through the depression era and before you could purchase any tying material (tools, thread, feathers, etc) you desired. The end product, tied with skill and creativity, that attracts the rise is what counts.

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