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novice58

What do I need, what do I ask for??

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Good evening, I need a little assistance with choosing the correct hackle, and how I ask for it. I had one full fly tying 101 class and a short 1 on 1 lesson at a local Orvis store. I have enough of the correct material for a couple of flies that I can practice on,and I am OK with those flies. I also asked for the materials to begin to try tying the Royal Wulff. When I tied my first one, I got to the point where I should tie in the brown hackle, and realized that I failed to get the hackle. I finished the fly without the hackle, and am actually happy with what I created. Before I could get back to the store, I left for an extended vacation, but would still like to attempt a proper wulff. I went to a fly store near where I am staying in Florida, and asked for the brown hackle. I was given extra long brown saddle hackle. When I tried to tie it in, it seemed too long and flat out didn't look right. Could someone please tell me if that is in fact the correct hackle...if not...what is...and so nobody mistakes what I need, how do I ask for it in a store, or on line. It's bad enough that I have the dexterity of a marble statue, I at least want to work with the correct materials. Thank You Have a good night

 

I'm not good, but I'm slow!

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The Royal Wulff is usually tyed with a coachman brown cock hackle. That's a dark reddish-brown hackle. Most coachman hackles today seem to be dyed that colour. But it sounds like your problem is more the size of the hackle. The collar hackle should extend approximately 1.5 times the hook gap. You have to measure the hackle before you tye it in. You can buy or make a hackle guide to help measure your feathers. Or you can wrap it around your hook and estimate. The Royal Wulff is often a difficult pattern to hackle. You have to ensure that the diameter of the body behind the wings is similar to the diameter in front of the wings. Wrap your hackle around this and make sure the feather fibers extend somewhere between 1 and 2 hook gaps in length and you will be OK. In your shoes I would ask for a Coachman Brown cock neck. There are plenty of different-sized feathers on a neck. You are assured of finding some of the right size.

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Thanks for the reply...I don't have a hackle guide, but will be sure to have one soon...no matter what hackle I chose from the pack, it seemed so long. I will get what I need and practice, practice, practice!! Cheers!!

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Novice,

Question! Long as in the length of the feather, or long as in the barbs are too big around after you wrap the feather on the hook? If it is because the feather is too long, just wrap until you have what seems the proper amount on the hook, then tie it off and cut it. You don't have to use the whole feather on one fly. (This is my worst tying "offense".) Some will tie 3 to 5 flies, if the hook is small enough. Some, even more.

What rockworm told you covers the other situation.

 

Kirk B.

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When you are told the "length" of the hackle should be 1.5 times the hook gap, remember that is the length of the individual barbs as they radiate out from the stem of the hackle when it is wound. Hackle gauge is not really necessary, and you can simply bend the hackle around a bare hook of the same size you are tying.

 

Both a neck or saddle hackle will work just fine for the hackle on most dry flies. Neck hackles will be shorter, and be more wedge shaped, while saddle hackles will be up to 4 times the length and have a much longer taper section. The length of the feather only needs to be long enough so that you have enough "good" feather section to wrap 4 to 6 times around the hook.

 

When you buy either Necks or Saddles for dry flies, you want Rooster capes, not hen capes. The lowest grades will work just fine for most people. The neck will provide you with the largest range of sizes. By sizes I mean hackles with barb lengths for all sizes of hooks. Most saddle patches will have longer individual feathers and several flies can be tied with the same feather. The trade off with saddles is that the usually only have hackles with barb lengths in 3 or maybe 4 different sizes.

 

A neck will give you some hackles for size 24 to size 1 hooks, where a single saddle will have hackles for a smaller range like sizes 12, 14, 16.

 

When you tie in any hackle, you first have to strip the fluff, and some of the feather near the butt. You want to remove that part of the hackle where the webby" part of the barbs extends more than 1/4 to 1/3 of the barb. The "webby" part is that darker more opaque part of the feather along the stem. Good dry fly hackle will have less of this web. Whiting sells hackle that is marked in sizes. These packs have 12 to 15 feathers that will tie the size indicated on the package. I have a few Whiting saddles that have a size range of 5 sizes, and each hackle provides me with enough length to tie 9 files with just one feather.

 

You want to bend the feather over the hook (or gauge,) at the start of the usable portion of the hackle to see if it is right for the fly size you tying. Then remove the feather from the neck, and strip the fluff, and the very webby barbs from the bottom of the feather before you tie it in.

 

The "conventional" way to tie in and wrap hackles these days is to tie them in LAST, and start wrapping just behind the wing making 2 to 4 wraps there then crossing under the wing, and making an equal number of wraps in front of the wing before tying off and finishing off the fly.

 

There is a different method called the "reverse hackle technique" shown in this video. With this method, the fly may be just a bit more difficult to tie, since you have to work around the hackle while you add the tail, body and wings, but when you wrap your hackle the longest barbs end up in front, and taper slightly as you wrap back. Then the hackle is tied off behind the wing, and you spiral your thread forward through the hackle to finish at the eye. This method not only reinforces the hackle, but makes it easier to finish off with a very small head.

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I may "ruffle" a few feathers here, but my advice is for a beginner to not attempt a Royal Wullf. It is one of the most if not the most difficult of the upright hackled dry flies. I used to tie my own Royal Wullfs, but now I buy them and use my time to turn out the flies that I can tie faster and better. I can a buy a much better tied Royal Wulff than I could ever tie and that is not true of the other dry flies.

 

I would bet that few of the long time fly tiers here enjoy tying Royal Wulffs. They are a pain to tie properly.

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Slivercreek - I'm with you on that thought. The Royal Wulff is a tough fly to tie well, definitely not a beginner fly. I can tie a pretty good number of dry flies to my satisfaction but the Royal Wulff is one that I have yet to master (not that I would claim to have mastered any aspect of fly tying). I have tied a few that I have fished but and caught fish on but they were far from perfect.

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thanks for the advice everybody...I will keep all the advice given, in my what to do....and...my what not to do memory bank...I chose the Royal Wulff to try because it's one of the flies that my buddy suggested to try when I started fly fishing...and I seem to have reasonable success with it when I try. I don't know how my fly's actually compare....but, with the exception of tying in the hackle...the other aspects of the fly seem to go well for me.....I am more surprised about that than anybody...I can't say enough how much I appreciate your input...

 

I'm not good but I'm slow!!

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The Orvis Royal Wulff goes for $2.75

 

http://www.orvis.com/p/royal-wulff/0406

 

I can't tie it nearly this well. Compare your finished fly with the one below if you don't actually know what a well tied Royal Wulff should look like.

 

0406L2W.jpg

 

It is easier to tie the Orivs Sparkle Dun or Elk Hair Caddis just as well as the flies they sell. Much, much easier. So start with the sparkleduns and elk hair caddis dries. No expensive hackle to buy.

 

749F2WBlwol.jpg

 

03782Wgrey.jpg

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Matthews X-Caddis is a really good fly to start tying also.

 

I cant believe that a dry fly costs $2.75. That is....... CRAZY!!!!!! I bought a bunch of royal wulffs from some cheapie online fly retailer like Big Y or Fly Shack my first year of fly fishing and they weren't exactly top notch but they fished and caught fish. I doubt they cost more than .65 cents each.

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Matthews X-Caddis is a really good fly to start tying also.

 

I cant believe that a dry fly costs $2.75. That is....... CRAZY!!!!!! I bought a bunch of royal wulffs from some cheapie online fly retailer like Big Y or Fly Shack my first year of fly fishing and they weren't exactly top notch but they fished and caught fish. I doubt they cost more than .65 cents each.

Been a while since you've bought flies, huh? If you go to a fly shop and look at their flies ... I think less than half of them are under $2.50. Most of them go for 3 to 5 bucks.

"Yes, Virginia", said Santa Claus, "I CAN save money tying my own flies."

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I have saddle hackle, I just snip off about an inch or two off the top and use that, the flufflies for bugger's and the rest... usually adding a bit of color or size to a fly, don't know if anyone else does that.

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Crazy no realistic yes. Silver is good tier yet he admits he would rather buy them. Such is the skill level to turn out a reasonable Royal Coachman. I can plod along at about 8 an hour for the Royal Coachman. You think someone with the skill level to do that is worth $5.20 less material costs, say $2. Meaning that they should be working for $3.20 an hour. I don't know what you do for a living, what skill level is required for it, or how much experience of doing it you have. Consider this, would you do it for $3.20 an hour before tax? If you wouldn't do it for that, why would you expect someone else to do it just because their product is used in your hobby? Frankly it is insulting that you think paying enough for something that the person making it gets a living out of it is crazy.

Cheers,

C.

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my advice is for a beginner to not attempt a Royal Wullf.

 

Hear hear!!! Here Here!!! Amen, and I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

I picked up a guitar about a year ago, and I am having some issues playing like Eddie Van Halen. Someone showed me what all the parts are called, and I had one lesson. Some of the Jimi Hendrix licks are giving me trouble too. Any one have any advise?

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