Broken thread

[dmcMaine 0]

Last night I started working with deer hair. - tying a CDC-Elk type caddis size 14. (something like this: http://www.intheriffle.com/fishing-videos/fly-tying/cdc-elk-hair-caddis/)

 

 

When tightening the deer hair on top, I broke my thread off. First time this has happened. I guess I shouldn't tighten the wraps quite so much. I was focused on keeping the hair on top of the hook shank and not letting it spin. I wasn't sure what to do from there. I had the deer hair wing tied in with the but ends still untrimmed flaring around the hook eye.

 

In the end, I tried to tie it off the best I could, trim the hair, and add some wraps of new thread, whip, and cement.

 

But what should I have done at that point?

 

Then end result of that first fly looked 'ok', but I seriously crowded the hook eye with the deer hair. Tying that in take quite a bit more space than I expected!

 

[mikechell 0]

Thread control is a factor when using thicker materials on such a fly. Usually, when I make that mistake, and the thread breaks, I just start over. But, if it's a time consuming fly, I might do as you did, and try to salvage the fly ... but rarely.

[artimus001 0]

if i can't restart the thread at the step where it broke, i'll go back one step. i your case, i would have removed the hair for the wing, and then restart the thread.

[Crackaig 0]

It will not be the last time!

 

To deal with your last point first. At least 95% of flies can be tied with two passes of thread along the hook shank. If you start your thread back from the eye at the back of where you want to form the head this gives you an aim point to finish getting everything you onto the hook. Also it removes 1 layer of thread from the head making for smaller heads.

 

The first thing when you break, or cut the thread, (you will do both over time) is DON'T PANIC. In your situation you may or may not loose the wing. You will not loose any more than that. The important thing is not to touch the fly. If you don't touch it it will not come undone. Eventually you will develop the confidence to just leave the loose end.Until then you can clip your hackle pliers to the loose end. They will provide enough weight to hold everything in place.

 

Now sort out your bobbin holder. Re thread if necessary, and trim away the frayed end. Restart the thread on the hook. Do not try to tie down materials or catch the loose end at this point. Just get the thread started on the hook. The most likely outcome of trying to do two things at once is you mess up both. Now you have firm foundation of thread on the hook you can catch in the loose end. Take your hackle pliers off, if you used them. Then trim out the loose end of the thread, and continue as normal.

Here it is in pictures. Notice how far back from the eye the thread starts.

If I've understood properly this is when you broke your thread.

Like this...

If you feel the need attach your hackle pliers to the thread like this.

Restart the thread on the hook.

Catch in the loose end.

Remove the broken end and tidy up.

Finish as normal.

 

For anyone doing demonstrations have a second bobbin holder ready with a spool of the same thread on it. When you cut your thread, and the bobbin falls on the floor do not grovel around looking for it. Leave it where it is. Pick up the second bobbin and continue. If you bend down you loose your audience.

 

Hope that explains it.

Cheers,

C.

[RickZieger 0]

I have trouble with the hair flaring around the hook when tying caddis.

Read somewhere to make a loop around the hair before tying on the hook shank.

Makes heads come out much better.

 

Rick

[dmcMaine 0]

Crackaig, thanks that describes it perfectly! And that is basically what I tried to do to fix it. I didn't think of using hackle pliers to secure the broken line, but otherwise tried to proceed as you just showed.

 

Thanks for the help. Now to tie up a bunch of these to get the techniques down pat. A little less thread tension, and set the tie-in point just a little farther back to not block the eye.

[Crackaig 0]

Glad to be of service.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you tie yours with a rib, or do you tie the hackle in at the bend? I find it quite strange that the belief here is that the hackle is tied in at the bend, and wound forward. Then I discovered that the original had the hackle tied in at the head, wound to the wound back, then secured with the rib. Which is the traditional way to form a palmered hackle here in the UK.

 

Cheers,

C.

[SilverCreek 0]

There are two techniques you need to master for putting material on the hook and to keep it from spinning.

The first is the pinch and Loose Loop Method. It is described below in the Orvis Fly-Tying Manual by Tom Rosenbauer.:

"Loosen your thumb and forefinger slightly, and bring a loose loop of thread over the top of the material and around the hook. No tension should be on the thread. When the bobbin is directly below the hook, pull straight down while pinching your forefinger tightly to the far side of the hook. Loosen the tension slightly and repeat the process three times, putting more tension on each successive wrap."

https://books.google.com/books?id=EAXxuPnf4JsC&pg=PT19&lpg=PT19&dq=loose+loop+method+fly+tying&source=bl&ots=9Q-Y4xGpDv&sig=84kDzyLN6A_Up6TKYcHbgc9phwA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6gdzVZSHDcP1oATc74GICg&ved=0CCAQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=loose%20loop%20method%20fly%20tying&f=false

http://forums.fishusa.com/Using-the-quotLoose-Loopquot-technique-m385413.aspx

The other method is for tying and placing hair on the hook for a wing such as an elk hair caddis. It is called the Loose Noose Method.

Wrap a thread base at the tie in point. Pinch the elk hair with your index finger on the far side of the hook and your thumb on the near side of the hook. Position the elk hair above the tie in spot, but not on the tie in spot. Bring the thread up on the near side of the hook and make one full loose wrap of thread around the hair only, not the hook.

As you make the second loose wrap, bring the thread over the top of the hair and down the far side and catch the far side of the hook, then make the third complete wrap. Let the bobbin hang free. This will keep light tension on the elk hair and allow you to check to be sure the elk hair is centered on the top of the hook. Make a couple of tight thread wraps to secure and help flair the hair. Take two tight thread wraps through the hair butts to secure the elk hair in place.

[wschmitt3 0]

Crackaig,

 

I like to tie the thick end of the hackle stem in at the head, run the dubbing back to the bend, wrap the hackle back and then secure the hackle with the tying thread. I don't particularly like the extra bulk of the wire under the body and I find the thread does the job just fine. I also feel like if there is any taper to the hackle wrapping it in forward from the bend causes it to fall over on its side unless you tie in the tip of the feather and I don't really like the way that looks.

[dmcMaine 0]

Thanks again.

 

This was actually a slightly different pattern, not and EHC at all. It was called a CDC & Elk. There is no hackle, and no rib. Heck, there isn't even a dubbed body. A single CDC feather forms the body and wispy hackle. Then an elk wing on top. That's it. It looked a lot easier to tie than a traditional EHC so I picked it to start with, and to practice stacking that wing. I figured that was enough of a challenge.

[Dave G. 0]

In terms of tying in the wing, the two versions of caddis are the same ( CDC or EHC).

 

I tie either with bundling the hair as mentioned someplace else in the thread or conventional, just depends how lazy I feel. Just learn to pinch well is best I can say. I fished for two years with caddis in Maine catching fish with flies that part of the elk hair twisted slightly to the back side of the fly. The fish didn't seem to care and I always found myself up there in my camper whipping up a batch of flies for a day or two of fishing, so I didn't care either. Then it dawned on me I could probably do a neater job ! Ya know , Sometimes I think the fish prefer the shoddy look better. In fact in one major session on the Moose River the trout ( a lot of trout vs salmon that year) they wanted all our beat up flies. I found myself taking nice neat looking flies and hacking them up with nail clippers, trying not to cut the elk hair too cleanly but kind of tear it out.

 

It looks like this year we won't make it there till Sept, the major caddis hatches might be done by then.. Still a few caddis around but hoppers , Muddlers and streamers tend to be more productive then. I've already tied my streamers and Muddlers for that trip LOL !!