Jump to content
Fly Tying
Jacktown

Difference between hen and rooster capes

Recommended Posts

Is there a difference between the hackles on a rooster cape and a hen cape? Bass pro has hen capes cheaper than rooster capes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rooster is normally a stiffer feather. So used for dry flies a lot. Hen is normally softer and webby at the base, used for wet flies where you want movement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roosters are bred by hackle growers specifically for dry fly hackle. The stiffness of the individual feather fibers (or barbs) that Piker mentioned, plus the density (number of barbs per feather) and the length of the feathers themselves are all qualities that hackle breeders have selectively bred for in their roosters over many generations. It takes a long time to do and it is not easy to achieve. That's why there are so few breeders of quality dry fly hackle, and why good rooster capes and saddles are more expensive than the same feathers from a hen.

If you are looking for good value in dry fly hackle, I would highly recommend checking out Collins Hackle farm--when you buy a rooster cape from them, you get the matching saddle patch for free--basically double the amount of hackle for the same money. Their prices are very reasonable. I've used their hackle for years and it is very good.

http://collinshacklefarm.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One side effect of breeding for stiff rooster hackle is that the corresponding hen hackle has also become stiffer. A good genetic hen hackle will now float a dry fly as well as rooster hackle used to 30 or 40 years ago. Fortunately we still have game birds (partridge, grouse, quail, mallard, etc) and starling to provide us with soft, webby hackles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to what has already been said, there can be differences between rooster hackles, depending on where they come from, the bird breed & how they're raised.Simply knowing the difference between hen & rooster hackle is not enough when you need something specific, so be sure what you buy is correct for the flies you want to tie. As with any natural material, there can a wide variance in it's properties & what types of patterns it might best tie.

 

Just because you buy a rooster cape, doesn't necessarily mean it will be good for a specific tying purpose. That means if you're tying dry flies, you want hackle that is correct for dry flies. I tie mostly bass & saltwater flies and use a lot of rooster hackle, both neck & saddle hackle. This type of hackle is not well suited for dry flies, as the fibers are too soft, like hen, but the feathers are much longer than hen, so good for tying long streamers & such.

 

If you're tying dry flies, and you stick with the brands & grades sold for that purpose, then you'll be fine. Some of the various sources for hackle will apply "labels" for other hackle such as "Woolly Bugger", "Bass & Saltwater", or "Streamer" to both rooster saddles & capes that will indicate it's not dry fly type and better for these purposes. This is not to say there won't be some hackle on each that won't tie other types of flies, even dries in some cases, but for example if you're tying Woolly Buggers, and a cape or saddle is labeled as "Woolly Bugger" then you should be OK buying it.

It's not what you want if tying primarily dry flies however.

 

Of course, this is a fly tying forum, so if ever in doubt, ask! Someone here will give you good advice! smile.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a side question: I have good rooster capes for my drys. Also been using some hen capes for years, for "general purpose" stuff--everything from streamers to bugger palmering to wet flies to spider-type wets. One of these is now used up--the grizzly.

 

I've been looking at replacing it with one of these "streamer capes" as all-purpose streamer/wet fly/spider/palmering cape. Anyone have any experience with them? Hard to even know if they're from rooster or hen--suppliers don't seem to say. I don't want something too stiff, like a dry fly hackle. I want something soft enough to be good on wets, spiders, buggers, etc.

 

Been looking at these Ewing & Metz "streamer capes." Their shape looks pretty good--not too pointy. Any thoughts on their wide-use applicability?

 

("American hen" capes don't have the shape for a wide variety of uses, and nor the right barring.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MikeV if your able to, go out and buy them in person, then you can open up a package and feel the feathers and see if they are what your looking for. Otherwise it's probably a gamble, some capes might be pretty stiff but not quite dry fly quality so they get the streamer label, others might be softer and exactly what you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mike, I have one neck described as "Streamer Hackle", it certainly will not do what you are looking for. Great for winging and will palmer buggers etc but not much else. Though I have never used them myself the Bramah Hen capes I have seen would fit the bill nicely for soft hackles and wet flies. They were, when I last saw them, not as expensive as I imagined they would be.

Cheers,

C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MikeV, in addition to what kennebec12 posted, not all with have a good range of appropriate sizes for every tying need. I buy a lot of hackle without seeing it, and it's not been an issue, as I tie wide range of larger sizes but I agree it's usually best to examine hackle to determine if it's suitable for your tying purposes.

 

I rarely tie anything smaller than a size 8, but when I do I'm a lot more finicky about the hackle I purchase for those smaller flies. Most of the hackle I purchase will tie size 6 or larger, and may not even have hackle smaller than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, naturally looking and feeling by hand is always best, but typically my options there are very limited; I'll see more than a small handful of Whiting dry capes (and no hen capes at all) only once or twice a year, the way the local shop does things.

 

I guess it might be tough to find what I'm hoping to find. I ordered a grizzly Whiting hen cape and thought it would do the job, but it arrived so ultra-dark it was almost black. Whiting said "Sorry but we don't grade by color, if it's grizzly we mark it grizzly, and put it in the package; we expect you to look through the clear plastic." They haven't yet evolved into the online purchase world. So I can't even go back to my retailer and ask them to order me a replacement. If I do, it could be another essentially black cape.

 

Well, dunno, maybe I'll just keep looking. Thanks for the thoughts guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I can't even go back to my retailer and ask them to order me a replacement. If I do, it could be another essentially black cape.

MikeV - You can always call the online retailer and explain what you are looking for and most of them will do the best they can to get it for you. I know Greg at Whitewater Flies does this all the time with he feathers he sells. I do this also when I sell my Bucktails and other materials through my site. Most online retailers will answer the phone or a well placed email. Not being able to hold something in your hands and see and feel it is the downside to online sales. The upside is that most online retailers have access to almost anything you will ever need, but it might take some time.

 

Brad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I think you're right Brad--if I can't inspect personally, next best thing is to get someone on the phone who will. There's a fly shop up in Montana who is said to have great service in this regard; maybe it's time I spoke with them. I'll also give Greg a call. I agree, the downside of remote shopping is sight-unseen purchase; the upside is that we have the entire world as our mall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...