Jump to content
Fly Tying
caloosa bug

weedless without mono

Recommended Posts

https://youtu.be/Ltc8DAr5ri8

 

https://youtu.be/vB-l9OulbuA

 

I know this has been covered before, but I have a few questions.

 

I'm looking for some weedless flies to throw here on Okeechobee. I've done the mono weedguard thing but I'm looking for something better.

 

What is yalls experience with the 2 flies in these videos?

Will the wide gap worm hooks land/sink with the point up?

How effective is the bucktail that is coated with resin that acts as a weedguard?

What about the slit foam weedguard?

Have yall tied in a stiff bristle weedguard like on bass jigs?

 

Thanks for whatever input you have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those are basically bend backs. I have been using bend backs for years on the grass flats and they work great for minimizing the weeds. They are also great for casting into tree lines and bushes since they don't get hung up as easily as hook down flies

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NO weed guard or weedless method is perfect. They all protect the hook from getting snagged, but don't prevent it 100%. So, pic your poison.

 

I've not tried that Gurgler version, but have tried using foam as a weed guard. It works, but again, not 100%. IMO you can't be too aggressive with it or it will hang up. It does work fine on a surface fly dragged over the top of some snags, but so does most weed guard methods

 

I've also tied flies on the offset worm hooks, and as agn54 has said, it's basically a bendback & that works well too for some types of snags, but not all. In some of the places I used to fish in MD, there was this nasty brier type snags around the edges & bendbacks, nor most other flies would come through that stuff easily, even with wire weed guards.

 

You have to consider the types of snags you'll encounter. It's been my experience & I'm sure others that the weed guard method chosen, may also dictate what type of snags I'll toss a fly into. Sometimes, you just have to pass on some spots. I've become a fan of the two prong "V" type tied with hard mono for most light snags such as grasses & around some of the bigger stuff like rip rap, or tree trunks & pilings. In the worse stuff, like Spadderdock pads, and brush I use a folded wire guard that sits positioned just behind the hook point. Unfortunately, the wire guard is not always going to allow good hook ups with light bites, and occasionally will get snagged in the wire. I've had fish grab a fly, push the mono type guards & never get hooked.

 

Most flies I tie now, if I'm going to add weed guards, it's the "V" type or the wire type, as these have served me well. I also still use bendbacks & tie on the worm hooks with no added guard & add the "V" type to some depending on where I intend to use them. I know I'm still going to get hung up sometimes, and frankly just live with it.

 

And yes, I have added multi strand mono guards to a few flies, experimenting to try & come up with something better, and it works. However, the difference between whats used on a jig is the jig has much more weight which allows the fibers to bend against that weight when a fish grabs the jig. Since flies are so light, a multi fiber guard has to be very light fibers too. I tried about 8 strands of 30 lb hard mono & had a hard time getting the hook into the bass I was targeting. It actually worked too well, as it was almost a fish guard too. wink.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw these in another forum, and have been tying them since. Work real well, I catch fish in them right through the weeds.

 

 

 

post-55074-0-38470200-1471283563_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CB,

 

Interesting ideas, both are basic bend back style on worm bass hooks.

 

Thanks for posting, I will try some for the weeded ponds.

 

Regards,

FK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Carpflyguy, so, with the foam are you fishing them just below the surface? Also, what types of "weeds" are you using them in? What weight rod are you using?

 

As I said, if you toss that in some of those briers I used to fish around, it will get hung every time as the foam would get impaled. Toss it in the Spadderdock pads & the foam's not stiff enough to deflect off the pad. Spadderdock is tough, and the leaves are often well above the waters surface & if your line gets in the notch in the leaves near the stem, that's where the fly usually gets hung. Foam has too much give to deflect over the pad leaf edges.

 

But, I bet it would work great around Lily pads or over submerged grass.

 

One thing that's not been mentioned is the rod weight is going to make or break getting some flies thru the snags. I had even gone to using a 10 wt and often 20 lb or heavier tippets in some of the areas that I fished. Even a 2 lb bass was tough to get out of some of that stuff with anything lighter.

 

I also learned that in some types of snags I couldn't get too aggressive with how I tried to move the fly thru the snags. Had to finesse it thru some of that stuff or it would definitely get hung.

 

I missed a lot of good bass fishing opportunities because I was afraid to toss flies into some places, because I knew I would end up hung up on a snag, particularly when I fished with a 6 wt. The 6 wt is fun, but it's not when I was hung on a snag more than a fish. rolleyes.gif

 

When I started fishing the nasty snags with heavy conventional tackle, I took a lesson from the experience & changed how I approached it with a fly rod. To that point, most bass I caught on flies were 2 lb or smaller. In all the years I fished in MD, I still haven't broken the 5 lb mark on flies, (hooked one on Florida on my 6 wt that may have, but broke it off at the boat) but I'm betting I can do it here in SC. smile.png

 

Here's what Spadderdock looks like: spatterdock.jpgNuphar_luteum_2.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've always been concerned about making it weed less and fish less lol!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tidewater, those flies are topwater. The back of the fly will usually sink down, but the foam head is going to stay above the water.

 

I'm fishing these on an 8 weight usually, but that's because the bass I'm fishing for aren't very large. I use a 6 foot piece of 25 or 30 lb line for a leader... knotted leaders get hung up.

 

I'm primarily fishing through huge beds of lily pads or over duckweed/millfoil kind of stuff. They go through perfectly for me and are quite effective. The pads I fish aren't as high above the water as your pictures.. they're more flush with the water which could be why theybslide over so we'll. I will sometimes also gold back the gurgler flap at the front to make it float high if the flap is catching sum on the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info everyone. I'll mostly be throwing across lilly pads, usually with hydrilla, and kissimmee grass mixed in. I don't plan on getting way back in the slop, or for something to be 100% snag proof. We've been catching a lot of good bass this summer over the pads that are in allys between tall maidencane and cat tails. Our weedless frogs have been getting hammered and am just looking for something to skim over the pads and possibly sit and float in the openings. I throw a 7 wt. And I don't expect to haul a 10 lb er out, but to hook up and trolling motor over is good enough. Carpflyguy I could see something like that working for me. I'll be trying some on the vise shortly and hopefully swimming them on the big o soon. I'm going to attempt a couple patterns with the "bendback" worm hooks along with Rich's ultimate worms.. which look awesome.

post-59266-0-84873200-1471292028_thumb.jpg

post-59266-0-97368000-1471292058_thumb.jpg

post-59266-0-77446500-1471292082_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zip, IMO sometimes it's a fine line between the two. I make my own jigs, and have played quite a bit with the fiber weed guards, I've settled on the medium stiffness as a good compromise, and finding a good compromise is the same with flies. I would rather not have weed guards a far as hooking the fish, and know I've not hooked a few because of the guards. However, still better than being hung up on a snag most of the time.

 

Carpflyguy cool, I'll have to try that. I used to sell a fly commercially that sat with most of the fly submerged & the back at the surface, but it was on a straight shank hook. Caloosa bug, as you can tell the type of snags is the issue we all face. Pads that sit on the surface are much easier to deal with than those such as the Spadderdocks. At one time most of the bass fishing I was doing was with a 6 wt. That was fine along the edges & pockets, but very much limited my success. Plus, MD is not like FL. A big bass in the tidal rivers I used to fish in MD was 5 lbs or larger. They're caught often enough by conventional tackle, but fly tackle limits the possibility even more. Those bigger bass are not as numerous in MD as you might find in Fl or other southern states either. But, my success with bigger fish did go up once I started targeting that thicker stuff. I caught many more of the 2 to 4 lb bass. The waters I fished in MD were also shallow, most being 5' or less, and in the hotter weather months the bass got well back in the thick stuff, and up under the over hanging trees where it was cooler. I learned to find them flipping & pitching jigs back in those areas, but not as easy to do with flies.

 

My best advice is try different types of weed guards on different types of flies to fit the conditions & situations you find. That's what I've learned to do, and it's worked for me.

 

BTW, I've fished the Rainbow & Withalacoochie Rivers in FL, twice. Once with only a 6 wt fly rod, and once with a buddy who lives there now. I caught bass both times, but had more success the second time there. I took the same fly rod the second time, but switched to spinning tackle as I was having difficulty getting any flies up under the over hanging trees. My buddy was skipping senko type worms well back under the trees & was catching fish. I've been stubborn at times with sticking with a fly rod, but sometimes you just have to try something else & go with what's working. That's how I approach weed guards on my flies & fly types I choose now too.

 

I enjoy fishing with flies the most, but sometimes it's not the right choice, but when it is, be as flexible as you can & that will improve your chances no matter size fish you're targeting. Only took me about 40 years to come to that conclusion. blink.png

 

laugh.png

 

I wish you folks a lot of success! smile.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I tied up a couple weedless gurglers last night. I'm anxious to try them. I may have to adjust width and I used a thicker foam than I usually tie. I'm hoping the weight of the hook will compensate for wind resistance. I've tied some frogs in the past with 1/0 fly hooks and there was too much foam and I couldn't cast them. These were tied on 2/0 ultra-point big mouth tube hooks. I put a little bit of ca on the bucktail where it's tied in, back an inch or so to keep it aligned with the point. It seems it would be pretty weedless and with minimal pressure the point is exposed. I know fishing cover is usually better suited for rod and reel, and my goal when fishing is to catch fish regardless of how. But on those days like we had this summer where 40-50 bass in half a day are not uncommon, it would be fun to whip the fly rod out and mix up the excitement. Plus not many people around here ever throw flies. Good luck finding a fly shop anywhere around this huge lake. I'd like to think that one day fly guided trips could be popular and someone would have to guide them.. But that's the distant future.. we'll see. For now I'm just learning all I can and enjoying the process of finding new ways to catch fish.

post-59266-0-71409400-1471364858_thumb.jpg

post-59266-0-72429400-1471364872_thumb.jpg

post-59266-0-84383700-1471364886_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A similar fly is the Filkins HPU (hook point up) tied on those EWG hooks. See www.flymasters.com home page; the link to the video is on the left hand column. I tied up several for a demo I did for my Northern Illinois Fly Tyers (NIFT) group. It swims well and the point does ride up. It never hung up in the weeds. Unfortunately, it didn't catch anything, but that's probably just me. Try adding some metal beads to the hook before tying on the mono for a rattle effect (leave them loose to slide) and a little extra weight. BTW, Mason Hard Mono works the best as it is the stiffest I have found. Shop around for the hooks; they can be expensive. Best deal I found was some South Bend Hooks on Amazon.

 

thanks, Bob H

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant. Tying onto the mono. That opens up so many more options. That's why I love this forum. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

BTW, I've fished the Rainbow & Withalacoochie Rivers in FL, twice. Once with only a 6 wt fly rod, and once with a buddy who lives there now. I caught bass both times, but had more success the second time there. I took the same fly rod the second time, but switched to spinning tackle as I was having difficulty getting any flies up under the over hanging trees. My buddy was skipping senko type worms well back under the trees & was catching fish.

Cool. My brother has been in Dunnellon for the last two years. He kayaks the rainbow and withlacoochee quite often. I've only fished it once and that was on a pontoon with the kids..so i didn't really fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...