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flytire

hmh trv review

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Full disclosure the statements below are written by a guy who ties trout flies and thinks a #6 is a "big" hook.

George is correct the 5/0 is unusable in a TRV especially if you protect the coating with the plastic inserts (these hooks are too beautiful not to).  I was able to get the 5/0 to seat in the middle groove with out the plastic protectors but it wasn't easy.  I didn't tighten the vise and even if I had I don't think it would have been secure enough to tie on  because the middle groove isn't the correct one for a 5/0.  The 3/0 was no problem even with the plastic and I was able to seat the 4/0 with the plastic but it didn't feel like it would hold really well.   

The 5/0 with the plastic- the vise is maxed out and that's as far in as I could fit the hook-

image.png.d9e5aebee554eb38a268216a31b6bc90.png

 

 

Here is the 5/0 without the plastic protectors in the middle groove which is as far as I could go.  The vise is not tightened to protect the hook.  It's usable but it would certainly ruin the coating on the hook.

IMG_6189.thumb.JPG.76cf1e3590bf2097731d46963c45d655.JPG

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They must be using very heavy wire on those hooks. The wire gauge (which varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and hook designs in the same size) will have more to do with how a hook fits than what size the hook is. The wire size on the 9/0 hooks I have been tying on is .076" but they are slightly flattened on the sides. For us guys that don't have to worry about a coating, it's a pretty good range.

Since we're talking about what the HMH TRV is good for and what it aint', I recently found that my Regal is better for pulling very tightly on deer hair flies to flare the hair because it has fewer hinge points where the vise might swivel downward. It's a very solid platform. I can do it on both, it's just easier for me on the Regal.

I've got a Dyna-King and a couple of other vises that I have never tried yet. I'm going to try them and compare them to the HMH. (They were gifts and inheritances).

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Interesting set of photos to say the least. While I still may end up with a TRV one of these days, I am now convinced it isn't a necessity. With the exception of trying the TRV for a short spell along with a brief stint with a Cotarelli T-Rex I've done all my tying on Renzetti vises for the last 30+ years and that will be the case in the foreseeable future.

For your information...that 5/0 hook I sent Dean was one picked with a stout wire by intent to see if it just might work.

Were I to stumble onto the right deal tomorrow I would probably add the TRV to the larder...but only for the right price and/or trade.

A special thank you to Dean and Mark for their genuine interest and super efforts in giving me a truly unbiased look at the TRV and it capabilities as well as its limitations. The fly fishing community never fails to amaze me.

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3 hours ago, flytire said:

@DFoster

you can only hold the hook and plastic thingy only by the tip?

why not on the flat spots between each groove?

I think it's a safe bet the jaws do not open wide enough to accommodate the hook that far into the jaws.

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i dont use the hooks you use but i inserted 2 Gamakatsu T10-6H salmon fly hooks into the jaws as far as they would go as shown below

the jaw was opened to its maximum extent

each hook is .035 inches in diameter for a total of .070 inches in diameter (i still have my higher math skills at 67 years old¬†ūü§™)

they were inserted between the first and second slots in the vise jaws

hook-test1.jpg
hook-test2.jpg
 

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5 hours ago, flytire said:

@DFoster

you can only hold the hook and plastic thingy only by the tip?

why not on the flat spots between each groove?

The reason is the design of the LAW jaws which pivot on a steel pin.  The maximum they can open is determined by when the outer jaw contacts the inner jaw (see below).  I put the digital micrometer on the 5/0 that George sent me and it came in at .072" so like you I was able to seat the hook in the middle groove.  However with the plastic protectors the mic indicated  .100" so an increase of 28%.  I just don't see the vice gripping the hook well enough that far out in the jaws.  The cam style jaws on the Renzetti definitely have the advantage on really large hooks and I think George made the correct choice.  

The reality is there is no perfect vise for every fly, just a perfect vise for the fly you are tying.  The TRV works exceptionally well for me as a tier of trout flies 2 down to 22, but then again so would a J Vise or a Dyna King Barracuda or a Renzetti Master or any other quality vise.  I have large hands and like pivoting the head up to 45 degrees which gives me a lot of space on both sides of the hook to work.   The inline rotary is a nice feature but I generally only use it to check my work on the far side.  As good as it is for my purposes I simply doesn't work on "giant" salmon hooks if you want to protect the black coating. 

 

Capture.JPG.0eee4fb8ba1e05eecf1d02a4c2bbbd8b.JPG

Capture1.JPG.b1ab363ae6444b359a5c9279557b00b6.JPG

 

 

 

 

IMG_1777.JPG

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5 hours ago, SalarMan said:

brief stint with a Cotarelli

@SalarMan please tell us what you thought... Not that I'm in the market but wow what a creative design.

 

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The Cotarelli T-Rex has become a sort of vise of choice in some classic salmon fly tying circles. All things considered it isn't really all that expensive compared to many top of the line vises coming in at $500 or more.

I got mine direct from Italy and it arrived in 4 days!! No duty, no customs issues, nothing. UPS dropped at the front door sweet as could be.

Now to the vise - It is a certifiable pleasure to tie on and will easily hold the hooks I use for my salmon flies. The only drawback to me was when I would rotate the vise over to tie in a body veil on the underside of the fly the design did not allow easy access for my hands to do what I wanted. Seems like a minor point, but it was enough of an issue for me to sell the vise (basically broke even on the deal) and go back to the Renzetti Master. Like Dean said, there is no perfect vise, but for me the Master is as close as I can get. I honestly believe the TRV is as close to pure perfection I've ever tried...but alas it isn't meant to be for me.

I've attached a couple of photos of the vise and the first fly I tied on it. I did a total of 4 or 5 flies before it went on the market, and no regrets.

973651989_DSC_0003(2).thumb.JPG.be4f88cf4cb6e802353f2a74159dccb7.JPG431879561_DSC_0008(2).thumb.jpg.392b6b00237af7994faeb104a6398e79.jpg

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9 minutes ago, SalarMan said:

The Cotarelli T-Rex has become a sort of vise of choice in some classic salmon fly tying circles. All things considered it isn't really all that expensive compared to many top of the line vises coming in at $500 or more.

I got mine direct from Italy and it arrived in 4 days!! No duty, no customs issues, nothing. UPS dropped at the front door sweet as could be.

Now to the vise - It is a certifiable pleasure to tie on and will easily hold the hooks I use for my salmon flies. The only drawback to me was when I would rotate the vise over to tie in a body veil on the underside of the fly the design did not allow easy access for my hands to do what I wanted. Seems like a minor point, but it was enough of an issue for me to sell the vise (basically broke even on the deal) and go back to the Renzetti Master. Like Dean said, there is no perfect vise, but for me the Master is as close as I can get. I honestly believe the TRV is as close to pure perfection I've ever tried...but alas it isn't meant to be for me.

I've attached a couple of photos of the vise and the first fly I tied on it. I did a total of 4 or 5 flies before it went on the market, and no regrets.

973651989_DSC_0003(2).thumb.JPG.be4f88cf4cb6e802353f2a74159dccb7.JPG431879561_DSC_0008(2).thumb.jpg.392b6b00237af7994faeb104a6398e79.jpg

Wow George that's nice work and a beautiful vise.  If you look at the last photo in my post above the gentlemen tying the salmon fly was using an HMH standard vise which he said he would never part with. It looked like they'd been a couple for a long time-

Curious do you fish with those works of art?

 

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First, I recognize Charlie Chute using that vise. The HMH Standard has stood the test of time, but some of us get spoiled by all the bells and whistles out there now.

I fish with classics, but commercial ties. The gut I use for what you see here is silk gut...and as the packaging says - "Made In Occupied Japan". It is post WWII stuff made in Japan and when it soaks for too long it gets sort of mushy and for these big flies and big fish it just doesn't work. There are guys who do fish with "gut eyed" flies for salmon, but the eye material is usually twisted modern monofilament. Looks good as well...but works a LOT BETTER!!

I've tied with real Spanish twisted silk gut, but again I think it isn't really suitable for for the stresses applied to the fly. Back in the day that is what was used...but there was no other choice. Today's stuff is obviously far superior and I take full advantage of that.

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1 minute ago, Mark Knapp said:

Now I'm really curious, what is the diameter of those 5/0 hooks? Thickness of the plastic?

I'll mic 1 or 2 and let you know...promise.

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