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4 hours ago, Sandan said:

 

I hope I wasn't too harsh. I was only passing along some of the gems I received from a long list of mentors, fellow tyers and teachers. At first I was a little put off by some of what was said, but as I progressed and got to know these folks I realized they truly cared about the flies and my tying of them. That is always behind whatever I may say...the desire to steer someone along  what is hopefully the correct path in fly tying.

I have been very fortunate to learn from some of the best...and I definitely try to pay it forward!!

George

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1 hour ago, SalarMan said:

I hope I wasn't too harsh. I was only passing along some of the gems I received from a long list of mentors, fellow tyers and teachers. At first I was a little put off by some of what was said, but as I progressed and got to know these folks I realized they truly cared about the flies and my tying of them. That is always behind whatever I may say...the desire to steer someone along  what is hopefully the correct path in fly tying.

I have been very fortunate to learn from some of the best...and I definitely try to pay it forward!!

George

George,

You weren't too harsh by any stretch of the imagination.  I took your criticism and comments in the spirit in which it was given, "the desire to steer someone along  what is hopefully the correct path in fly tying."  I realized that before you put it into words.  I wear my big boy pants, I can take it. I've heard "No" before.   I appreciate yourt straightforward and above all honest assessments and criticism.

Michael

 

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An attempt at a Dee style salmon fly. Trying to incorporate SalarMan's advice. Again, comments/criticism requested. 

PHOTO_20200910_194924.jpg

PHOTO_20200910_194907.jpg

PHOTO_20200910_194917.jpg

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I like seeing new guys sink their teeth into these. This is good effort and it looks like your on the right track, setting wings are challenging and you got them setting nicely.
Yeah it’s fun playing with material, from learning how the rachis of a feather responds when “tying” in, to how to properly marry simple wings, it’s a challenge that you learn to master with time and Quality material. 

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On 9/12/2020 at 6:11 PM, Bruce Derington said:

I like seeing new guys sink their teeth into these. This is good effort and it looks like your on the right track, setting wings are challenging and you got them setting nicely.
Yeah it’s fun playing with material, from learning how the rachis of a feather responds when “tying” in, to how to properly marry simple wings, it’s a challenge that you learn to master with time and Quality material. 

Thanks Bruce. I'm have fun with these.  IT's all a work in progress and so far I'm enjoying the journey. Mastery is, to me, a goal that's gong to take a looong time to achieve. Not complaining at all, just stating fact. 

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7 minutes ago, Sandan said:

Thanks Bruce. I'm have fun with these.  IT's all a work in progress and so far I'm enjoying the journey. Mastery is, to me, a goal that's gong to take a looong time to achieve. Not complaining at all, just stating fact. 

I don't know where you live, but something else you may want to consider Sandan is finding a local mentor/teacher.

If you have a tying club near you there may be members who tie these flies. If so, they may be willing to mentor you and guide you through the process. Out of the 150 +or- members of my tying club I have 2 guys I am working with. We were together yesterday and spent several hours doing the gut eye, tip,tag, tail, veil, butt, underbody, finished body (2 segments), rib, hackle and throat. That was it for the 3 hour session. We will pick up where we left off next time and go to work beginning with the underwing.

If there isn't a club nearby perhaps a local fly shop would be able to connect you with someone.

It has been my experience that there is nothing like one on one time to learn the ins and outs of this stuff.

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2 hours ago, SalarMan said:

I don't know where you live, but something else you may want to consider Sandan is finding a local mentor/teacher.

If you have a tying club near you there may be members who tie these flies. If so, they may be willing to mentor you and guide you through the process. Out of the 150 +or- members of my tying club I have 2 guys I am working with. We were together yesterday and spent several hours doing the gut eye, tip,tag, tail, veil, butt, underbody, finished body (2 segments), rib, hackle and throat. That was it for the 3 hour session. We will pick up where we left off next time and go to work beginning with the underwing.

If there isn't a club nearby perhaps a local fly shop would be able to connect you with someone.

It has been my experience that there is nothing like one on one time to learn the ins and outs of this stuff.

Again, appreciated. I'm in the Denver area. I'll start checking for clubs, and I'm buddies with a few guys in my local shops so I'll ask there also. I agree you can't beat one on one.

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On 8/20/2020 at 6:34 PM, Bruce Derington said:

Here's a Fly I tied a while ago

my CLASSICS 003.jpg

Forgive this "beginner question", but are salmon that much "fussier", or are the fishers trying harder to pay their respect (or are salmon flies just an art form for their own sake--they certainly Are an art form!)?

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On 9/4/2020 at 4:45 AM, Sandan said:

I checked out Ronn Lucas' site and for my first foray into Classic salmon patterns took his advice and started out easy. From tutorial #1 a couple of RAT style flies. Substitutions made for some materials. I'm liking the beginning of this journey. 

PHOTO_20200903_203617.jpg

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PHOTO_20200903_195321.jpg

Nice flies Mr. Dan Just getting around to catching up here.

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4 hours ago, Bill_729 said:

but are salmon that much "fussier"

There's a whole lot of myth and half truths in the answer to that. 

<fact> Where people use these kinds of flies up stream in fresh water, the salmon aren't eating anything.  They swim all the way to their first date/baby making tryst and die ... without ever stopping for dinner. 

<possible myth> At one time (as I understand it) it was thought that salmon were such exalted creatures that they only ate butterflies.  Hence, the butterfly beauty of the classic fly.

The above are just items I've read.  Since I don't live near, fish for, or tie for salmon, I have no real interest other than information.

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1 hour ago, mikechell said:

There's a whole lot of myth and half truths in the answer to that. 

<fact> Where people use these kinds of flies up stream in fresh water, the salmon aren't eating anything.  They swim all the way to their first date/baby making tryst and die ... without ever stopping for dinner. 

<possible myth> At one time (as I understand it) it was thought that salmon were such exalted creatures that they only ate butterflies.  Hence, the butterfly beauty of the classic fly.

The above are just items I've read.  Since I don't live near, fish for, or tie for salmon, I have no real interest other than information.

I think you are mixing some stuff up.

I don't know much about Atlantic Salmon but I do know this. Pacific Salmon are the ones that go up stream to spawn once and die . As I understand it, Atlantic Salmon, the targets of the Classic Atlantic Salmon fly, have the ability to return to ocean after spawning and come back to spawn again the next year.

"Unlike Pacific salmon, Atlantic salmon do not die after spawning, so adults can repeat the spawning cycle for several years." -the internet.

I knew that was true about Atlantic salmon on our eastern shore, but had to check if it was true in Europe where the Classic Atlantic Salmon Fly originated.

All five species of Pacific Salmon return to the river they were they born, spawn once and die.

Of our Pacific Salmon only the Sockeye (red) is notorious for not eating while in fresh water. All four of the others readily take a fly, bait or lure. Since, as I understand it, Atlantic Salmon also take a fly, lure or bait in fresh water, I guess they probably do it for the same reasons that Pacific Salmon do.

It is a wide spread notion that these species don't eat for sustenance but they do eat for some reason. We people think we know everything, so the experts say that the salmon that do take a lure or bait in fresh water, do so from frustration, instinct, to keep a nest clean of someone else's eggs or just to be mean. They say this because salmon caught in fresh water often don't have much the their' stomachs. I think if I swam a thousand miles up a river, I wouldn't have much in my stomach either. I think that food is also harder to come by in fresh water and it's not what these fish have been used to eating their whole adult lives, so they don't have much in their' bellies.

I think we would need to be a fish to know why they eat or don't eat.

 

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Here in Michigan we get a great run of Kings and Coho, and in some areas the Atlantic’s show up in numbers.

They ALL take egg sac’s, Roe, flies and streamers

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1 hour ago, Bruce Derington said:

Here in Michigan we get a great run of Kings and Coho, and in some areas the Atlantic’s show up in numbers.

They ALL take egg sac’s, Roe, flies and streamers

I've never fished the transplants in the great lakes. They were just starting to get hot there when I left Minnesota. I knew there were some guys getting Atlantics from the tributaries of Lake superior. Gosh, it's been so long now, they could have been steelheads, I don't remember. (36 years ago now) At any rate, that's what we see here in Alaska too.

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