Please read these guidelines for critique

[Mark Knapp 0]

Sometimes people want to post something without necessarily being critiqued and it has made some people reluctant to post. Others feel like it's open season for criticism if it's posted on the forum. To help clear things up a little, here are some guidelines for critique on this forum.

• Do not critique unless critique is asked for.
• If you believe you could help someone do better, but they haven't asked for critique, simply ask them if they are open to critique.
• Only constructive criticism is acceptable. Constructive critique is done to help someone improve, not to show how much you know. If you are not able to help someone do better, it's better not to say anything. For example, instead of saying something like "The proportions are all wrong" say " Traditionally on that fly the tail is about one hook shank in length and the hackle is...." The former is not going to help anyone do better.
• In some cases, critique may not be asked for but it really may be necessary. In cases of proper fish handling, general safety precautions, and matters of ethics and legality, critique may not be welcomed but in the interest of a better community and community image it may be necessary.

 

[skeet3t 0]

Good advice.

[xterrabill 0]

Great to see this (not that I had an issue with it) but from what I have seen on another site (music engineering/production/ect.) we have gone through a similar situation, offering up critique with positive remarks and info on how to remedy in a nice fashion goes a long way, good educators know this.

with all the super nice folks here, I can see a huge benefit for all that wish to absorb the knowledge others are so willing to convey.

Great post and congrats on the mod job mark.

[Chisum 0]

There is always a PM option instead of airing it out for all to see

[knotjoe 0]

58 minutes ago, Mark Knapp said:

Do not critique unless critique is asked for.

Does this apply to proper fish handling, general safety precautions, and matters of ethics and legality?

I get the part where one can "ask if someone is open to critique" but if such critique might be deemed unflattering a person may refuse or decline accepting input publicly.  Could be PM'd, but then we'd lose the benefit of the thread readership learning something from the critique.  IOW, it'd never see the light of day if the OP was more into the gratification aspects of posting.

I don't personally have an issue withholding critique, just that I have admittedly learned a lot from others unsolicited critiques as annoying as they may have been to the original poster.  There's a lot of "Wow, I never thought about it that way!" which occurs in internet discussion threads.  

[Moshup 0]

I think it is off putting for someone who is learning and I might add we are all still learning to put real  effort into a fly and post it only to get no feedback at all.  I believe that discourages people from posting.  I try to be positive when commenting on someone’s work. I agree unsolicited negative feedback is totally unnecessary. There is a difference between giving  helpful advice and using a negative tone when commenting. 

[Bill_729 0]

1 hour ago, Mark Knapp said:

• Do not critique unless critique is asked for.

 

Man, someone got to you.  I stopped going to a forum once everyone seemed afraid to make honest comments or suggestions, and as a result  there was little to be gained.  YMMV.

[Sandan 0]

I agree w/ both our new mod and mogup. My questions, is this really a problem?, how often does it happen?

[Moshup 0]

1 minute ago, Sandan said:

I agree w/ both our new mod and mogup. My questions, is this really a problem?, how often does it happen?

It happens but not much from what I’ve seen.  Most people here are just trying to be helpful.

[flytire 0]

wow! looks like my future involvement in trying to help new tyers is going to be very very limited 

who complained?

[Bill_729 0]

3 minutes ago, Mogup said:

It happens but not much from what I’ve seen.  Most people here are just trying to be helpful.

I didn't realize we had a problem either!  In fact, I can't recall any malicious comments about fly tying.

[Stippled Popper 0]

1 hour ago, Chisum said:

There is always a PM option instead of airing it out for all to see

Excellent idea!  

Even for polite, positive, well intentioned comments.  

[Mark Knapp 0]

43 minutes ago, knotjoe said:

Does this apply to proper fish handling, general safety precautions, and matters of ethics and legality?

I get the part where one can "ask if someone is open to critique" but if such critique might be deemed unflattering a person may refuse or decline accepting input publicly.  Could be PM'd, but then we'd lose the benefit of the thread readership learning something from the critique.  IOW, it'd never see the light of day if the OP was more into the gratification aspects of posting.

I don't personally have an issue withholding critique, just that I have admittedly learned a lot from others unsolicited critiques as annoying as they may have been to the original poster.  There's a lot of "Wow, I never thought about it that way!" which occurs in internet discussion threads.  

Point well taken. I think that any critique can be given in a respectful, well-meaning way, and if given in that way should be taken that way. In those cases, the moderators will be watching and they will be handled on a case by case basis. I will ad an addendum that will hopefully answer your concerns.

[Mark Knapp 0]

27 minutes ago, Sandan said:

I agree w/ both our new mod and mogup. My questions, is this really a problem?, how often does it happen?

 

21 minutes ago, Bill_729 said:

I didn't realize we had a problem either!  In fact, I can't recall any malicious comments about fly tying.

 

24 minutes ago, flytire said:

wow! looks like my future involvement in trying to help new tyers is going to be very very limited 

who complained?

I really don't want to give names but I can tell you that at least one highly respected, very skilled, avid contributor recently left for that reason. He did not leave because he personally was being treated poorly, he left partly because people were being criticized harshly at times. It's not a new problem, or a serious one but it has been brought up more than once after a particularly rude or harsh comment.

People have been, for a long time, wondering why we don't have more new tiers and lady tiers contributing, some of us think that harsh critique may be a reason.

There's always more than one way to say something. Many of us think we will encourage more people to contribute if we choose the kinder approach rather than the short, curt one.

There's no reason why anyone should need a "thick skin" to participate here. IMHO.

Judging by the responses to this thread so far, at least half of us think it's a good thing to do.

[Mark Knapp 0]

1 hour ago, Bill_729 said:

 

Man, someone got to you.  I stopped going to a forum once everyone seemed afraid to make honest comments or suggestions, and as a result  there was little to be gained.  YMMV.

No one got to me. These are accepted practices taught in art schools all over the US. I personally haven't felt harshly critiqued but I have been paying attention and I have been asked to write something up.