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Rusty Shackleford

Whiting Brahma Soft Hackle with Chickabou?

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I'd like to get one of these to tie up some brahma buggers and possibly some other patterns, can these be used to tie a common soft hackle fly in #14? I realize a cape would probably be a better choice for soft hackles but I'm just starting out and hoping I can use this one bird to tie up a few different patterns without having to buy more stuff. I know there are techniques you can use to make oversize feathers work for hackle, but for now I'd like to keep it simple. 

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When tying flies beginners usually try to get the specific material/hook that a pattern calls for, after some experience you start to tie with what you have on hand that will do the job and then tyers will go 1 of 2 ways - 1) They'll realize that they only need so many patterns and therefore MUCH less variety of material or 2) he who dies with the most toys wins approach and try to own every possible tying material in existence!  "Hello, my name is Kim and I am a materialholic!"

If you are looking at 14's you'll want to learn one of the techniques for tying with an oversize hackle with your choice of material.  They are pretty easy to do.  I use two methods depending on my mood.  One is easy to find on Youtube and has a couple variations (the choice mainly depends on the diameter you want for the body of the soft hackle fly).  These involve tying in the hackle facing the eye of the hook to start. The other I can describe (it'll take you longer to read my description than to tie the darn thing!).

Take you oversized feather and hold it up 90 degrees (going up and down) to the hook on your side of the vise.  Now strip off the tip and trailing barbs until you have what will work to cover YOUR side of the hook shank (otherwise half of the soft hackle).  Now hold it back at the 90 degree angle and align the tips with the curve of the hook and tie in the barbs at the normal soft hackle tie in point with 2 SNUG wraps of thread and cut the hackles from the stem (hit works best to cut a few hackles at a time - you do not want to force your scissors in or you'll change the length of the hackle.  Now turn the hackle over and repeat the steps using the other side of your feather on the far side of the hook shank.  Now finish with some tight thread wraps and you are done - it's OK to do a couple tight wraps and re-cut the barbs near the eye if they are too long.

Hope this helps!

Kim

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49 minutes ago, WWKimba said:

When tying flies beginners usually try to get the specific material/hook that a pattern calls for, after some experience you start to tie with what you have on hand that will do the job and then tyers will go 1 of 2 ways - 1) They'll realize that they only need so many patterns and therefore MUCH less variety of material or 2) he who dies with the most toys wins approach and try to own every possible tying material in existence!  "Hello, my name is Kim and I am a materialholic!"

If you are looking at 14's you'll want to learn one of the techniques for tying with an oversize hackle with your choice of material.  They are pretty easy to do.  I use two methods depending on my mood.  One is easy to find on Youtube and has a couple variations (the choice mainly depends on the diameter you want for the body of the soft hackle fly).  These involve tying in the hackle facing the eye of the hook to start. The other I can describe (it'll take you longer to read my description than to tie the darn thing!).

Take you oversized feather and hold it up 90 degrees (going up and down) to the hook on your side of the vise.  Now strip off the tip and trailing barbs until you have what will work to cover YOUR side of the hook shank (otherwise half of the soft hackle).  Now hold it back at the 90 degree angle and align the tips with the curve of the hook and tie in the barbs at the normal soft hackle tie in point with 2 SNUG wraps of thread and cut the hackles from the stem (hit works best to cut a few hackles at a time - you do not want to force your scissors in or you'll change the length of the hackle.  Now turn the hackle over and repeat the steps using the other side of your feather on the far side of the hook shank.  Now finish with some tight thread wraps and you are done - it's OK to do a couple tight wraps and re-cut the barbs near the eye if they are too long.

Hope this helps!

Kim

I'm sure eventually I'll have a bunch of materials because that's just my nature, tying them forward and then back sounds like it'll prolly do the trick until I feel like splurging on a Partridge eventually, once I have some more experience. Thanks a lot for the help and I'm sure you will be seeing much more of me on here :)

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2 hours ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

I'd like to get one of these to tie up some brahma buggers and possibly some other patterns, can these be used to tie a common soft hackle fly in #14? I realize a cape would probably be a better choice for soft hackles but I'm just starting out and hoping I can use this one bird to tie up a few different patterns without having to buy more stuff. I know there are techniques you can use to make oversize feathers work for hackle, but for now I'd like to keep it simple. 

The single overwrap method. 

Stroke the hackle fibers out and then measure the hackle length you want at the by placing the hackle against the normal tie in point at the head of the fly, with the tips pointed forward. The tips should extend over the fly so they will be the correct length when they are folded back at the normal tie in point. Look at the hook shank to see where the shaft of the feather is. This is the tie in point. As you tie a few flies, you will get better at finding the correct spot.

Tie the hackle in at this point and wind forward in touching wraps and tie off. Pull the the hackle fibers forward to the normal tie in point. Keep the fibers distributed around the hook and tie then down with the tips facing over the eye end of the hook. Now you can take the thread back and dub the body. When you get to the tied down hackle, pull them back and tie back over the body of the fly. They should be the about correct length. The single overwrap is demonstrated here:

 

 

The "double overwrap" method is for the longest fibers.

With the longest soft hackle fibers, tie and wrap the long hackles in the normal position leaving room for the head before tying the rest of the fly. After wrapping the soft hackle, estimate how overly long the fibers are. Pull the fibers back over the hook and tie them down at 1/2 the "overlength" point. Fold the fibers back toward the head and tie them down at the original point. The fibers will be facing forward over the hook eye and away from the hook body. Now take the thread back and tie the rest of the fly. The last step is to take the thread to in front of the soft hackle and tie them back so now they fold over the body over the fly.

With the "double wrap method", you can use extremely long soft hackles to tie shorter soft hackles. If you strip the hackle from one side of the stem before tying and wrapping, you will get a less bulky fly and the hackle will be neater.

 

The third method is to use the method of the Petitjean Magic tool.

You can make a dubbing loop and put in Soft Hackle Fibers fibers using the Marc Petitjean Magic Tool. 

You actually don't need the tool. You will need a thick foam blocks (from a thick pair of foam sandals), a credit card, and a set of bulldog paper clamps. Cut a straight slit in the foam blocks from end to end. The slit has to reach to both ends of the foam blocks to be able to release the fibers later.

Put the Soft Hackle fiber stems over the slit in the foam block and use the old credit card to push the fiber stems into the slit. 

Use the paper clamp in the place of the transparent Petitjean clamp to hold the end of the soft hackle plumes. Open the slit in the foam  block to release the fibers and you are in business. The soft hackle fibers are lined up, cut off the stem(s) and place the fibers into the dubbing loop.

With this simple set of homemade and cheap bought tools you can do what the Magic Tool does. See homemade tools here:

Flytying with CDC: Dubbing loop with cul de canard fibers

Flytying with CDC: Dubbing loop with Cul De Canard fibers

See the Petitjean showing how it is done below:

 

 

A final method is the one used by Charlie Craven on this pattern:

https://charliesflyboxinc.com/portfolio-items/fly-box-template-88/

 

 

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20 minutes ago, SilverCreek said:

The single overwrap method. 

Stroke the hackle fibers out and then measure the hackle length you want at the by placing the hackle against the normal tie in point at the head of the fly, with the tips pointed forward. The tips should extend over the fly so they will be the correct length when they are folded back at the normal tie in point. Look at the hook shank to see where the shaft of the feather is. This is the tie in point. As you tie a few flies, you will get better at finding the correct spot.

Tie the hackle in at this point and wind forward in touching wraps and tie off. Pull the the hackle fibers forward to the normal tie in point. Keep the fibers distributed around the hook and tie then down with the tips facing over the eye end of the hook. Now you can take the thread back and dub the body. When you get to the tied down hackle, pull them back and tie back over the body of the fly. They should be the about correct length. The single overwrap is demonstrated here:

 

 

The "double overwrap" method is for the longest fibers.

With the longest soft hackle fibers, tie and wrap the long hackles in the normal position leaving room for the head before tying the rest of the fly. After wrapping the soft hackle, estimate how overly long the fibers are. Pull the fibers back over the hook and tie them down at 1/2 the "overlength" point. Fold the fibers back toward the head and tie them down at the original point. The fibers will be facing forward over the hook eye and away from the hook body. Now take the thread back and tie the rest of the fly. The last step is to take the thread to in front of the soft hackle and tie them back so now they fold over the body over the fly.

With the "double wrap method", you can use extremely long soft hackles to tie shorter soft hackles. If you strip the hackle from one side of the stem before tying and wrapping, you will get a less bulky fly and the hackle will be neater.

 

The third method is to use the method of the Petitjean Magic tool.

You can make a dubbing loop and put in Soft Hackle Fibers fibers using the Marc Petitjean Magic Tool. 

You actually don't need the tool. You will need a thick foam blocks (from a thick pair of foam sandals), a credit card, and a set of bulldog paper clamps. Cut a straight slit in the foam blocks from end to end. The slit has to reach to both ends of the foam blocks to be able to release the fibers later.

Put the Soft Hackle fiber stems over the slit in the foam block and use the old credit card to push the fiber stems into the slit. 

Use the paper clamp in the place of the transparent Petitjean clamp to hold the end of the soft hackle plumes. Open the slit in the foam  block to release the fibers and you are in business. The soft hackle fibers are lined up, cut off the stem(s) and place the fibers into the dubbing loop.

With this simple set of homemade and cheap bought tools you can do what the Magic Tool does. See homemade tools here:

Flytying with CDC: Dubbing loop with cul de canard fibers

Flytying with CDC: Dubbing loop with Cul De Canard fibers

See the Petitjean showing how it is done below:

 

 

A final method is the one used by Charlie Craven on this pattern:

https://charliesflyboxinc.com/portfolio-items/fly-box-template-88/

 

 

I was already planning to use method 3 to add some CDC to some nymphs using the split thread technique, are you saying this can also be done for larger hen hackle as well? Thank you for the detailed reply. Which method has the best looking end result in your opinion?

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24 minutes ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

I was already planning to use method 3 to add some CDC to some nymphs using the split thread technique, are you saying this can also be done for larger hen hackle as well? Thank you for the detailed reply. Which method has the best looking end result in your opinion?

I really depends on the length of the fibers you are going to use.

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There will probably be a few feathers that can be used for size 14s directly. Most of the feathers will be larger , but can be used by utilizing one of the techniques SilverCreek posted.

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5 hours ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

I'm sure eventually I'll have a bunch of materials because that's just my nature, tying them forward and then back sounds like it'll prolly do the trick until I feel like splurging on a Partridge eventually, once I have some more experience. Thanks a lot for the help and I'm sure you will be seeing much more of me on here :)

Looking forward to it!

Kim

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Just wanted to follow up on this thread by sharing the first pattern I tied with my Brahma feathers, It is only the 8th fly I have ever tied and I am very happy with how it came out, considering :D

Brahma Bugger.jpg

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2 hours ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

Just wanted to follow up on this thread by sharing the first pattern I tied with my Brahma feathers, It is only the 8th fly I have ever tied and I am very happy with how it came out, considering :D

Brahma Bugger.jpg

Nice job!  Tied a similar pattern using Ring neck Hen body feathers for the pheasant swap.

Kim

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Bears Den used to sell a Wapsi  brand skin of small hen or even cock that is soft enough and small enough for soft hackles, I use that in natural color for my soft hackles most of the time. And it's only $10 or so. I haven't been there in a while but kind of can't imagine they dumped this line. Grouse feathers are good for soft hackles too but I haven't grouse hunted in years , getting low so I turned to that Wapsi idea..

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