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george ayala

Why clear epoxy doesn't work underwater

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image-20210226_225845.thumb.jpg.3ac278acf09d436ae9427155da7531f7.jpgHere are my thoughts on clear epoxy.  When i see this sow bug or scud pattern on my vice, I think about how a fish would see it underwater and ask this question, will the fish see the same profile that i see in air or will the fish see only the solid opec materials inside the epoxy?  I would think this scud pattern wouldn't look correct to a fish because it would not be able to make out the overall shape of a scud pattern body. 

What I begun to do is mix in a bit of dye into the epoxy in a dish then apply with a wooden applicator that i used to stir the dye with just to give it a bit of translucency of some color so that the fish can just make out the shape and still see the other materials.  The epoxy still hardens well even after the dye is added.  The epoxy dye can be found on Amazon as i found a nice set of 12 basic colors that can be even mixed to get more colors than the 12.  

So is anyone out there mixing dye to their epoxy?  I havent seen anyone do this on Youtube or found any articles on the Fly Tyers magazine.

image-20210226_225105.jpg

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Many ... MANY ... years ago, I was heavily into bass fishing.  I read an article that some who's-who caught most of his winning bass on a clear plastic lure.  The train of thought on "why" was that the light reflections on the plastic were the trigger.  The fish couldn't make out an entire shape, but there was SOMETHING there and it deserved attention.

So, I tried a clear "Zara Spook", a clear rattling diver and a clear, 5 inch floating/diving minnow.  The diver and the floating/diver were hard to find.  If I was still into bass as much as I'm into fly fishing ... I'd be buying more of those clear plastic lures.  They were "clearly" something the bass wanted to smash.  Violent hits.  Some pretty large fish.  They surely worked well.  I can't tell you why, but they did.

I think, with clear UV resin, one of two possibilities exist.  Either the sunlight/daylight flashing off the surface catches piscine attention ... or the UV resin actually is visible in UV ranges and fish can see an opaque silhouette where we can't. 

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You may have something there with your theory Mike.  Its possible the wavelength passing through the clear resin is at a different speed then the water around it because of a much denser substraight.    Totally inspiring thing to think about as i create the shapes, but will continue to experiment with mixing different light tones till i am fully convinced.   

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On 3/11/2021 at 8:11 PM, mikechell said:

Many ... MANY ... years ago, I was heavily into bass fishing.  I read an article that some who's-who caught most of his winning bass on a clear plastic lure.  The train of thought on "why" was that the light reflections on the plastic were the trigger.  The fish couldn't make out an entire shape, but there was SOMETHING there and it deserved attention.

So, I tried a clear "Zara Spook", a clear rattling diver and a clear, 5 inch floating/diving minnow.  The diver and the floating/diver were hard to find.  If I was still into bass as much as I'm into fly fishing ... I'd be buying more of those clear plastic lures.  They were "clearly" something the bass wanted to smash.  Violent hits.  Some pretty large fish.  They surely worked well.  I can't tell you why, but they did.

I think, with clear UV resin, one of two possibilities exist.  Either the sunlight/daylight flashing off the surface catches piscine attention ... or the UV resin actually is visible in UV ranges and fish can see an opaque silhouette where we can't. 

The favorite rig in Louisiana was called a Jumpin' Jesse. The rig was a clear Tiny Torpedo with an 18 inch trailer and a white jig. It was deadly for schooling bass. Two with one cast!

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On 3/11/2021 at 1:01 AM, george ayala said:

Here are my thoughts on clear epoxy.  When i see this sow bug or scud pattern on my vice, I think about how a fish would see it underwater and ask this question, will the fish see the same profile that i see in air or will the fish see only the solid opec materials inside the epoxy?  I would think this scud pattern wouldn't look correct to a fish because it would not be able to make out the overall shape of a scud pattern body. 

 

I don't know why you state: "I would think this scud pattern wouldn't look correct to a fish because it would not be able to make out the overall shape of a scud pattern body."   There is no reason to think that.

Put the fly in a glass of water.

If you can see the shape of the scud in the water, the fish can see it. Trout see just about the same colors we see except their color vision spectrum is very slightly wider than ours. For what you are describing, there would be little difference from what we see as far as color is concerned.

The fish WILL see the same profile that you see. Because the lens in a trout's eye is round AND the are in water, everything is in focus to a trout. They do NOT have to change the shape of their lens as human do to focus on an object as we  humans do.

What trout do not see as well as us is fine detail because they do not have a macula for fine vision. Trout only see 1/14 the detail we humans see.

But that is true whether they are looking at a scud fly or a real scud, so again there will be no difference in the detail that they see in the real scud or the fly. The fact that they cannot see fine detail means they have less ability to tell the difference between what is real and what is fake.

The bottom line is that the scud fly will look more "real" to the trout than it looks to you, because  they don't see it as well. 

http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/whatsalmonidssee.shtml

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If trout only see 1/14th of the detail that we do (and I'm not doubting you) then there seems to be little reason for us to go to such great  efforts in our tying to get the most detail in our flies.  If the trout can't discern the details that much then why bother with it in tying.

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What are the 4 most important things in "matching" the hatch.

1. Size - seeing 1/4th the detail of humans still permits trout to evaluate size.

2. Color - trout can see the same colors we can and they see a bit more into the red end.

3. Shape - trout can see shapes even though they cannot see the detail we can.

4. Motion - Again, not seeing the same detail as us still allows trout to see motion = behavior of the natural vs the fly.

Read this thread which is a more detailed discussion of trout vision.

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=82200&&p=639910&page=2

 

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