shoebop 0 Report post Posted March 16, 2021 8 hours ago, Mark Knapp said: Hi George, Here's the problem as I see it. Fly tying is steeped in tradition. Many of these flies have been tied the way they are for a long time. They call for specific hooks and specific materials. When I became a moderator here, I made it a point to try and make this a kinder place for people to post, but quite honestly when I saw your first post of the simulator I knew you were going to have a hard time here. Many people tie for a long time before posting a video. They practice and perfect the craft. To post a video that shows a poorly tied fly and label it, "How to ..." when it's not the way to tie it is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. At first you were taking the critique in a good way, now you're starting to get heartache over it. The problem is not that you are a new tier, and not that you like to video your work. The problem, as I see it is, that you are posting "how to" videos on incorrect flies. You could title them "My take on the ..." or "A variation of the ..." You would need to put in there that you used certain materials because that's what you had on hand. You can tie what ever you want but don't call it what it's not. These people can get cranky. The job of us moderators is to keep things from getting out of hand. If these posts get out of hand we will have to delete them. If you are here to learn, learn. These guys are really trying to be kind. Well said Mark! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
George Werbacher 0 Report post Posted March 16, 2021 16 hours ago, shoebop said: Well said Mark! Pat yourselves on the back you all deserve it. Thanks for saving me the headache of utilizing the forums resources to learn how to improve. We should burn all the books that don’t comply, maybe impose fines. You win.. side note..this is what was posted.insulting and rude. Not you Mark I understand and wish tour forum continued luck. Shoebop..isnt worth replying about.. Posted in The Royal Wulff 7 hours ago, Mark Knapp said: Hi George, Here's the problem as I see it. Fly tying is steeped in tradition. Many of these flies have been tied the way they are for a long time. They call for specific hooks and specific materials. When I became a moderator here, I made it a point to try and make this a kinder place for people to post, but quite honestly when I saw your first post of the simulator I knew you were going to have a hard time here. Many people tie for a long time before posting a video. They practice and perfect the craft. To post a video that shows a poorly tied fly and label it, "How to ..." when it's not the way to tie it is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. At first you were taking the critique in a good way, now you're starting to get heartache over it. The problem is not that you are a new tier, and not that you like to video your work. The problem, as I see it is, that you are posting "how to" videos on incorrect flies. You could title them "My take on the ..." or "A variation of the ..." You would need to put in there that you used certain materials because that's what you had on hand. You can tie what ever you want but don't call it what it's not. These people can get cranky. The job of us moderators is to keep things from getting out of hand. If these posts get out of hand we will have to delete them. If you are here to learn, learn. These guys are really trying to be kind. Well said Mark! I made an attempt to say the same thing but it just bounced off his hard noggin. It was at this point that I decided it wasn't worth the headache to say anything further. George clearly doesn't get it. In a couple of years he will look back at this and probably be a little embarrassed at his vanity. The audacity of taking a specific, long established and well known pattern and use the wrong materials and even the wrong hook and then say this is how to tie it...(with poor technique) makes me shake my head in disbelief. Please George, continue to tie and use whatever materials you want and modify them all you want...just don't tell us "this is how you tie a _______." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sandan 0 Report post Posted March 16, 2021 3 hours ago, George Werbacher said: Pat yourselves on the back you all deserve it. Thanks for saving me the headache of utilizing the forums resources to learn how to improve. We should burn all the books that don’t comply, maybe impose fines. You win.. side note..this is what was posted.insulting and rude. Not you Mark I understand and wish tour forum continued luck. Shoebop..isnt worth replying about.. Posted in The Royal Wulff 7 hours ago, Mark Knapp said: Hi George, Here's the problem as I see it. Fly tying is steeped in tradition. Many of these flies have been tied the way they are for a long time. They call for specific hooks and specific materials. When I became a moderator here, I made it a point to try and make this a kinder place for people to post, but quite honestly when I saw your first post of the simulator I knew you were going to have a hard time here. Many people tie for a long time before posting a video. They practice and perfect the craft. To post a video that shows a poorly tied fly and label it, "How to ..." when it's not the way to tie it is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way. At first you were taking the critique in a good way, now you're starting to get heartache over it. The problem is not that you are a new tier, and not that you like to video your work. The problem, as I see it is, that you are posting "how to" videos on incorrect flies. You could title them "My take on the ..." or "A variation of the ..." You would need to put in there that you used certain materials because that's what you had on hand. You can tie what ever you want but don't call it what it's not. These people can get cranky. The job of us moderators is to keep things from getting out of hand. If these posts get out of hand we will have to delete them. If you are here to learn, learn. These guys are really trying to be kind. Well said Mark! I made an attempt to say the same thing but it just bounced off his hard noggin. It was at this point that I decided it wasn't worth the headache to say anything further. George clearly doesn't get it. In a couple of years he will look back at this and probably be a little embarrassed at his vanity. The audacity of taking a specific, long established and well known pattern and use the wrong materials and even the wrong hook and then say this is how to tie it...(with poor technique) makes me shake my head in disbelief. Please George, continue to tie and use whatever materials you want and modify them all you want...just don't tell us "this is how you tie a _______." George, Is this rude and insulting, "Shoebop..isnt worth replying about.."? He(Shoebop) actually gets it right in this 5th sentence, IMHO. How about this, "Thanks for saving me the headache of utilizing the forums resources to learn how to improve. We should burn all the books that don’t comply, maybe impose fines. You win.." So here's the deal, I was more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and even gave you some what I thought was good advice to help with your rushing the head issue, which you said you'd take. Cool. It does seem that any other advice has gotten your hackles up (pun intended). flytire, SilverCreek, Mikemac1 those guys probably have more than 100 years of experience between them and upnorthtier too. These guys are giving you excellent advice which you are not listening to. "I stay away from videos where the pattern doesn't match what I am working on or the person does there own unique take on a fly." Yet you are giving your own unique take on a fly which can be considered a classic without mentioning that you are giving your own unique take. "I know and actually respect your opinion. Critique the bug and I promise you if it is true.." Do you think any one is giving you a false critique? What I think is the crux of the issue is this. At the end of your video you said, and I'm quoting from memory here as your video is not on this thread anymore, "Don't take your tying seriously, the fish sure don't". Now I know your video is gone so you can say that my quote is inaccurate, Well as far as I can tell the folks on this board do take their fly tying seriously. They(we) might joke and quip but I'm pretty sure we all take our tying seriously. Where I fish the fist take the flies very seriously too, they are hyper-selective most of the time and a bad tie will not produce. Quote "The idea is you don't have to be an expert to tie them and fish with with them." That is very true but you should at least be more than a few months experienced tier before trying to tell others how to tie a particular pattern, especially when you're giving incorrect information. I'm out. Oh, yeah, keep on tying George, don't let any of this criticism stop you, it's all given with your best interests as an improving tier in mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted March 17, 2021 George, I hope you stay, and learn to take the criticism doled out on this site. It's meant with good intent. I've locked this thread, to keep the rhetoric from escalating any further. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
