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Black Ice

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Yup Subaru has always been on the ball with getting power from their turbo motors. Back in my car club/car show days we had a couple guys in the club that had those WRX's that were all hopped up. And while I will always be a big V8 guy, I will admit, those hopped up WRX's were putting out some serious power.

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On 4/21/2021 at 9:23 PM, mikechell said:

Bridges don't freeze first because of the steel or concrete.  They freeze first because they are exposed to the cold all the way through.  The ground keeps the roads a little warmer than the air, usually.  

If black ice conditions could be predicted reliably, then I am sure the "powers that be" would pre-sand or pre-salt the roads.

Locals spray a sodium chloride solution on bridges and overpasses. Here in SE TN, the attitude toward snow is based on Scripture- The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away.

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Okay ... I'm a little confused.  While in the military, I drove a true 4 wheel drive.  I don't remember what kind of vehicle it was (ugly tractor type thing), but it was a real terror to handle.  Both rear wheels were on one axle, both front wheels were on one axle, and a chain drive system ran both axles.  No differential, no slip.  On a straight line, it was great.  You could take your hands off the steering wheel and it would run straight even over rough terrain.

BUT ... trying to turn is a real test of arm strength.  The inner wheels of the turn are turning faster than the distance covered while the outer wheels are turning slower.  All the wheels are turning the same speed, as always, but the distances travelled are different.  It chattered and bucked as the wheels tried to grab and slip. 

My understanding is that you CAN'T have a vehicle with full power to all the wheels without some slip, or it would steer like crap like that tractor/vehicle did.  So how does Subaru do it?

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31 minutes ago, mikechell said:

Okay ... I'm a little confused.  While in the military, I drove a true 4 wheel drive.  I don't remember what kind of vehicle it was (ugly tractor type thing), but it was a real terror to handle.  Both rear wheels were on one axle, both front wheels were on one axle, and a chain drive system ran both axles.  No differential, no slip.  On a straight line, it was great.  You could take your hands off the steering wheel and it would run straight even over rough terrain.

BUT ... trying to turn is a real test of arm strength.  The inner wheels of the turn are turning faster than the distance covered while the outer wheels are turning slower.  All the wheels are turning the same speed, as always, but the distances travelled are different.  It chattered and bucked as the wheels tried to grab and slip. 

My understanding is that you CAN'T have a vehicle with full power to all the wheels without some slip, or it would steer like crap like that tractor/vehicle did.  So how does Subaru do it?

I think you mean the inside wheels in a turn rotate SLOWER and the OUTSIDE wheels rotate faster. The outside wheels are further from the center of the turn so they must travel further.

Subaru has multiple AWD systems.

 

 

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9 hours ago, mikechell said:

Okay ... I'm a little confused.  While in the military, I drove a true 4 wheel drive.  I don't remember what kind of vehicle it was (ugly tractor type thing), but it was a real terror to handle.  Both rear wheels were on one axle, both front wheels were on one axle, and a chain drive system ran both axles.  No differential, no slip.  On a straight line, it was great.  You could take your hands off the steering wheel and it would run straight even over rough terrain.

BUT ... trying to turn is a real test of arm strength.  The inner wheels of the turn are turning faster than the distance covered while the outer wheels are turning slower.  All the wheels are turning the same speed, as always, but the distances travelled are different.  It chattered and bucked as the wheels tried to grab and slip. 

My understanding is that you CAN'T have a vehicle with full power to all the wheels without some slip, or it would steer like crap like that tractor/vehicle did.  So how does Subaru do it?

True. When turning power is computer controlled to allow the wheels to turn slower or faster in turns.

the military vehicle you refer to was it a gamma goat, or something like that? 

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Never had 4WD or AWD and never needed it. When I lived on rural central KY,  I did have to use helper chains to get up a hill to visit friends. There were three families that lived on this dead end road. They would scrape it but didn't go real deep to keep from removing all the gravel.

My father had a '57 Ford with three on the column. I watched him stop on a long hill of about 35-40 degrees, put it in second and start out without spinning a tire.

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We (Seabee's) didn't have goats but the dragon wagon was chain driven and a true beast for recovery work - but larger than what you are describing (6X6)

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19 hours ago, SilverCreek said:

I think you mean the inside wheels in a turn rotate SLOWER and the OUTSIDE wheels rotate faster. The outside wheels are further from the center of the turn so they must travel further.

No, I meant what I said, and that was the problem.  Without slip, the wheels all turned the same speed.  In a turn, the wheels couldn't slow and speed up as necessary.  That's what made driving it so strenuous.

 

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