SBPatt 0 Report post Posted June 1, 2021 Barn Owl Muddler hook - WFC Model 4 #10 thread - UTC 140 brown tail - moose body Rib - tying thread body - pronghorn wing - Congo Hair shiner tan shoulder - pheasant rump dyed brown head/collar - pronghorn Regards, Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBPatt 0 Report post Posted June 1, 2021 Carnage Coffin Fly hook - WFC Model 28 #10 thread - Danville 6/0 black core - 20lb mono tail - moose body body - 1mm foam white hackle - grizzly shoulder - hen black Regards, Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Knapp 0 Report post Posted June 1, 2021 13 hours ago, SBPatt said: Barn Owl Muddler hook - WFC Model 4 #10 thread - UTC 140 brown tail - moose body Rib - tying thread body - pronghorn wing - Congo Hair shiner tan shoulder - pheasant rump dyed brown head/collar - pronghorn Regards, Scott Pst, it's against the law to use barn owl. 😁😊 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baron 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 I have worked a little more with this simple Elk Hair Caddis and hope I sort of got it now. At the worst I still think it will fish but once again I' like your opinion. If this is the wrong place for this discussion please suggest a more appropriate location. I tried to make it narrower in the width. I lowered the wing by wrapping lightly at first and increasing tension as I wrap forward. I read that Al Troth preferred to tie this on a #16 Dry fly hook but I don't have any. Once I get this right an order will be placed for the correct hooks, thread and hide. Below Is a few #12 4x streamers, a #20 and a #14. My favorite is the the #14 as it is a barbless wide gap scud hook. This gives it the hook size of a 12 and the length of a #16 dryfly. Your thoughts are desired and as I said if there is a better place to post let me know as I hate to hog this page. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScienceGuy141 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Baron said: I have worked a little more with this simple Elk Hair Caddis and hope I sort of got it now. At the worst I still think it will fish but once again I' like your opinion. If this is the wrong place for this discussion please suggest a more appropriate location. I tried to make it narrower in the width. I lowered the wing by wrapping lightly at first and increasing tension as I wrap forward. I read that Al Troth preferred to tie this on a #16 Dry fly hook but I don't have any. Once I get this right an order will be placed for the correct hooks, thread and hide. Below Is a few #12 4x streamers, a #20 and a #14. My favorite is the the #14 as it is a barbless wide gap scud hook. This gives it the hook size of a 12 and the length of a #16 dryfly. Your thoughts are desired and as I said if there is a better place to post let me know as I hate to hog this page. I think this looks pretty darn good. It'll definitely catch fish. Getting the wing lower will probably be easiest with a different patch of hair. You can try to adjust your tension at the tie in point like you mentioned but sometimes different techniques can't overcome the tendencies of the material you're working with. Especially in rougher water though a higher wing might be nice to help track the fly through your drift. I just saw a video of Tom Rosenbauer and Tim Flagler tying with yearling elk, and they talked about how little it seemed to flare. It always helps to see the hair before buying and you can select a piece that fits the application. An almost completely aesthetic point is, if you want, you can trim the hair before you tie it in, so when you cinch down, you'll get a nice dome shaped head. You won't have to trim the head at all after. I've heard guys say the dome shaped head gives the fly more stability, but I don't see how that could make any difference given how small the head is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBPatt 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 There haven’t been too many Elk Hairs that haven’t worked, however they’re tied; good, bad, indifferent, it’s just such a good pattern. I like my wings flared a bit more, but, as ScienceGuy stated, that’s because I usually fish in rougher water and like a more visible fly; I think Mr. Troth preferred a down-wing like you’ve tied. Tying them on curved-shank hooks in smaller sizes, like you have, does provide the extra gap width which can help in hooking; I like emerger hooks like a Dai Riki 125 (which I guess you can’t get any more) because they’re lighter weight than most scud hooks, but yours should be fine, and if it does sink, the trout may take it as an emerger, diving egg-layer, or drowned caddis. Regards, Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBPatt 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 15 hours ago, Mark Knapp said: Pst, it's against the law to use barn owl. 😁😊 Mark, Yeah; mine was named for it’s appearance. Check out some of the flies Ken Sawada ties, though; he really does use owl and eagle feathers http://www.kensawada.com/FLIES/index.php?v=work&fcId=8&flId=01409&flsId=21 I guess things are different in Japan. Regards, Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
niveker 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 @Baron 👍 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baron 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 I'm using Bull Elk. Wondering if there are softer options such as yearling or doe elk, or even Deer flank hide. So the message I come away with regarding the wing is that the angle is a personal thing. I don't fish rough water very often. I'll be fishing Henry's Fork but from what I see it is relatively fast but smooth. Thanks for the help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baron 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 8 hours ago, ScienceGuy141 said: I just saw a video of Tom Rosenbauer and Tim Flagler tying with yearling elk, and they talked about how little it seemed to flare. It always helps to see the hair before buying and you can select a piece that fits the application. An almost completely aesthetic point is, if you want, you can trim the hair before you tie it in, so when you cinch down, you'll get a nice dome shaped head. You won't have to trim the head at all after. I've heard guys say the dome shaped head gives the fly more stability, but I don't see how that could make any difference given how small the head is. Aha, This is where I saw yearling mentioned. Thanks for that. I do precut the heads but I'm still not happy with the shape. I'll work on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SBPatt 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 Golden Olive Muddler (Michigan Body) hook - WFC Model 4 #10 thread - UTC 140 brown tail - moose body body - pronghorn dyed golden olive (4 Tsp Rit Golden Yellow, 1/2Tsp Rit Camel/4 cups water) wing - Congo Hair shiner tan shoulder - hen furnace head/collar - pronghorn dyed golden olive Regards, Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baron 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 This is just awesome. The colors are rich. As a warmwater fisherman I have to say what a multi-species potential it has. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaydub 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Baron said: I'm using Bull Elk. Wondering if there are softer options such as yearling or doe elk, or even Deer flank hide. So the message I come away with regarding the wing is that the angle is a personal thing. I don't fish rough water very often. I'll be fishing Henry's Fork but from what I see it is relatively fast but smooth. Thanks for the help. I have a patch of yearling Elk that has become my favorite for EHCs. That said, not all hair with the same description has the same qualities. Bull Elk works fine, I used it for many years. Elk hock has almost no flair. I have seen different tiers reccommend Bull Elk, Early season Cow Elk, Yearling Elk, Elk hock, Deer hair.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baron 0 Report post Posted June 2, 2021 So The answer is not to be so picky as to cost myself fish and work myself into a tizzy that I did or didn't exactly copy Troth's original. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites