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rhinorods69

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Posts posted by rhinorods69


  1. how big of a bug you need to tie some time the hackle will not reach around the hole bug if using the wrong size for size 2 and 4 use strung neck hackle in purple black and olive marabou same color and chenille in any bright color plus the colors listed is all you need for woolly buggers indian neck are small feathers if you got black i tye my stone flies with 2mm foam and black biots and indian neck hackle black like so can be used every were on tons of different flies

     

     

    IPB Image

     

     

     


  2. here is a list i got for michian waters no telling if you can use them there or not but any ways it's streamers none the less and other bugs i teach

     

     

    Class 1

     

    Green caddis larva

     

    Hook standard nymph 1 x long sizes 6 – 14

    Thread black 6/0

    Body bright green yarn - single strand of

    Head peacock hearl or dark olive chenille

    1) Tie in yarn using the pinch wrap method at the first bend (make sure thread is forward of tie in point)

    2) Attach hackle pliers to yarn until rope is formed

    3) Wrap yarn ¾ of the way up the shank (make sure thread is forward of this point)

    4) Tie in peacock herl at yarn tie in point (warp peacock herl ½ warp around shank so that the herl is in the line of the thread. Then wrap herl around thread 4 time. Holding herl and thread together wrap forward and tie off . remember not to crowd the eye of the hook

    5) Finish with small head then whip finish and glue

     

     

     

     

    Pheasant tail nymph

     

    Hook standard nymph 12-20

    Thread brown 6/0

    Ribbing fine copper wirer

    Tail ring neck pheasant

    Abdomen pheasant tail

    Wing case

    Thorax

     

    1) Tie in copper wire

    2) Select mahogany colored tail fibers according to hook size (bigger hook longer fibers)

    3) Tie in tail length should be ½ of hook shank

    4) Attach hackle pliers and make rope with remaining fibers

    5) Wrap fiber forward ½ the way up hook shank

    6) Wrap forward the copper wire

    7) Tie back remaining fiber to form wing case (if no mahogany fiber are left cut off and tie in new ones )

    8) Tie in pea cock right in front of abdomen . warp herl around thread 4 time til a rope is formed (make sure to leave room for tying down wing case and forming head)

    9) Pull wing case over peacock herl and tie off pull remaining fiber aside to imitate legs

    10) Form small head and whip finish off

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Wooly bugger

     

    Hook 3x to 4 x long streamer hook size 1-12

    Thread black or color to match body

    Weight lead wire or lead eyes

    Tail black marabou

    Hackle black schalpen or saddle hackle

    Body dark olive chenille

    1) Weight your hook

    2) Tie in tail at bend of hook tail should be length of shank

    3) Tie in hackle by the tip at bend of hook.

    4) Tie in chenille at benmd

    5) Wrap chenille to eye with out crowding it

    6) Palmer hackle to over body to eye

    7) form small head whip finish and glue

    note this fly is tied in numerous color combinations some are all black all brown all olive.be creative and give them a try.

     

     

     

    Black nosed dace

    Hook 3 x long streamer hook

    Thread black

    Tail red yarn

    Body small oval and flat two sided Mylar

    Wing white black and brown buck tail in that order

     

    1) tie in yarn for tail

    2) tie in oval tinsel at bend of hook

    3) tie in flat tinsel at eye of hook

    4) warp tinsel back to bend and then forward to eye

    5) wrap oval tinsel forward

    6) tie in a small clump of white buck tail about 1-1/2 length of shank

    7) tie in black buck tail same length

    8) tie in brown buck tail same length

    9) form small head and whip finish

     

     

    Soft hackle

    Hook standard nymph or dry sizes 8 – 18

    Thread brown 6/0

    Body single strand floss green purple orange or yellow

    Thorax dubbing rabbit dubbing natural

    Hackle Hungarian partridge or Indian saddle hackle or hen saddle hackle

    1) tie in floss at bend of hook wrap forward ¾ the way up the hook shank

    2) add small amount of dubbing to form small ball covering up were you tied off the floss

    3) Select the correct size feather for that size hook that you have in vice. (The barbules should extend to the bend of hook ) and tie in the tip right at the dubbing ball

    4) Warp hackle forward with out crowding eye when tying off the hackle put a few extra wraps so the hackle will face back

    5) Form small head whip finish and glue

     

     

     

     

    May fly nymph hendrickson size 12-14

    Hook standard 1x long nymph hook 12 -20

    Thread brown

    Weight wire or bead optional

    Rib fine copper wire optional

    Tail wood duck flank fiber in lemon wood duck

    Abdomen natural fur dubbing in seal brown or Hendrickson purple

    Wing case white tipped turkey tail

    Legs English grouse or other molted brown feather

    1) Weight hook

    2) Tie in copper wire at bend if desired

    3) Tie in tail at bend off hook the length should be ½ of shank

    4) Dub thread and wrap ½ way up hook shank

    5) Wrap copper wire the length of dubbing

    6) Tie in a length of turkey were the dubbing ended

    7) Dub thread again and tie forward to eye leaving room

    8) Tie off wing case

    9) Tie in grouse barbules on bottom of hook beard style to suggest legs the length should not be past the hook point

    10) Form small head whip finish and glue

    11) Change color and sizes to imitate other may flies

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Elk hair caddis

    Tan caddis 14-18

    Hook std dry fly 6 – 20

    Hackle brown

    Body tan dubbing

    Wing light or bleached elk hair

    1) Tie in hackle at end of hook

    2) Dub thread and wrap forward a level body ¾ the way up the hook shank

    3) Palmer the hackle forward over the dubbing the length should be the length of the gap of the hook an over sized hackle may be used and clipped to length

    4) Tie in wing just in front of dubbing on thread cover hook shank leaving a small flared head. Do not cover head wing length should be a little long then hook shank

    5) Once wing secured whip finish at tie in point and glue .

    6) Note other colors are green caddis green dark olive light olive and brown with brown hackle and dark gray with black hackle .

     

     

     

    Bivisible

    Hook dry fly size 10-18

    Thread color to match hackle

    Tail spade hackle to match rear hackle

    Hackle brown dun or black on rear and cream or white on front

     

    1) Tie in 15 barbules of spade hackle for the tail the length of tail should be length of hook shank

    2) Tie in rear hackle at bend of hook shank

    3) Wrap hackle forward 2/3 of the shank length tie off clip off excess

    4) Tie in front hackle at 2/3 tie off point(just in front of tie of point)

    5) Wrap hackle forward just in front of eye

    6) Form small head and whip finish and glue

    Gold ribbed hears ear

     

    Hook 1x long nymph hook size 4 -18

    Thread brown

    Weight wire or bead

    Rib fine flat gold mylar

    Tail guard hair from hears mask

    Wing white tipped turkey tail

    Thorax mixed under fur and guard hair from hairs mask

    1) Weight hook

    2) Tie in tinsel at bend of hook

    3) Tie in clump of guards hairs at bend off hook length should be ½ of shank length

    4) Dub abdomen with hares mask blend

    5) Wrap tinsel over abdomen

    6) Tie in a strip of turkey tail were the dubbing ended

    7) Insert hared mask in to dubbing blend and twist wrap forward to eye or bead

    8) Pull wing case over thorax and tie off ‘form small head whip finish and glue

    9) Note maybe tied in any color of hares mask you can find

    Parachute dry fly

    Hendrickson size 12 or 14

    Hook dry 8-24

    Thread brown 6/0

    Tail med brown spade hackle or micro fibbetts splayed fan or clump style

    Body dark tan dubbing

    Wing feather calf tail or synthetic material

    Hackle med dun

    1. tie in tail extended off back of hook the tail should be length of shank

    2. tie in wing ¾ the way up the hook ( length should be from bend to eye )

    3. pull wing material pull wing at 90degree to hook shank wrap thread in front to make it stand up

    4. post wing material with clock wise thread wraps.

    5. dub thread and wrap a tapered body from bend to just behind wing

    6. tie hackle in front of wing

    7. dub and complete thorax

    8. wrap hackle around base of wing counter clock wise and tie off

    9. form small head and whip finish double hitch and glue

    10. note color maybe changed to imitate other may flies

     

    catskill style dry fly

    Hendrickson 12or 14

     

    Hook standard dry 10-20

    Thread brown 6/0

    Tail med dun spade hackle

    Body dun tan dubbing

    Wing wood duck or mallard flank dyed wood duck

    Hackle Medium dun

    1. tie in 10-15 barbules of spade hackle the length of hook shank

    2. tie in mallard flank feather ¾ the length up the shank extendeding out over the eye of the hook feather length should be 1-1/2 the gap of the hook

    3. post and divide wing after cutting

    4. Divide in to two equal part to form wings.

    5. dub thread and wrap forward to just behind wing

    6. tie in hackle just behind wing

    7. Wrap hackle equal in front and behind wing then tie off.

    8. form small head whip finish and glue

    9. Change size and color to imitate other may flies.

     

     

    Comparadun

     

    Hendrickson 12-14

     

    Hook standard dry 10-20

    Thread brown 6/0

    Tail micro fibbets or spade hackle

    Body dark tan dubbing

    Wing natral costal deer hair

     

     

    1. dub a small ball at bend off hook

    2. splay tailing material on both side of dubbing ball use 4 fiber two on each side tail should be length of hook shank

    3. tie in stacked costal deer hair ¾ up the shank of the hook with tip extending out over the eye after do not let go of the butt ends make sure it is secure and then trim them this way you do not cut the tails off when you trim the butts

    4. pull up deer hair so it is at a 90degree to hook shank then wrap thread in front of wing to make it stand up right and flair out

    5. dub you thread and wrap a tapered body

    6. form small head whip finish and glue

    7. flare wing so it sits 180 degrees on top of hook

    8. note change color and sizes to imitate other may flies.

     

     

     

     

    Griffiths knat

    hook dy fly 14-22

    Thread olive

    Rib fine gold wire

    Body peacock herl

    Hackle grizzly hackle

     

    Serendipity

    Hook tmc 2487 size 14-22

    Thread to match body

    Body light green gray red thread or yarn

    Wing case deer hair trimmed

     

    Green machine

    Hook dry fly 18-22 tmc100

    Thread white rib fine silver wire

    Body Danville plus or equal in chartreuse only

    Thorax in peacock herl

     

     

    Marabou muddler olive

     

    Hook 3xl streamer hook

    Thread black 6/0

    Tail red hackle fibers

    Body gold diamond braid

    Wing peacock over olive marabou over olive calf tail

    Collar deer hair

    Head deer hair spun and clipped to shape

     

    The zoo cougar

     

    4 xl size 2-8

    thread Danville plus color to match head

    tail marabou color to suit

    body sparkle braid color to suit

    under wing white calf tail wing mallard flank feather flat on top of the hook

    collar deer hair color to suit

    head deer hair spun and clipped to shape

    comments it is important to place the flank feather flat on top of the hook trim the head flat on bottom try a razor blade

     

    grizzly king buck tail

     

    hook 3 to 4 xl

    tag flat silver tinsel

    tail crimson goose shoulder

    body green floss or yarn

    rib small flat silver tinsel

    wing gray squirrel tail

    collar grizzly hackle

    cheeks jungle cock optional

     

     

     

    royal coach man goose wing

    hook 4xl up eye streamer or standard sal;mon hook

    tail golden pheasant tippet

    body in thirds peacock herl red floss peacock herl

    beard coachman brown hackle

    wing white goose shoulder

     

    Trout fin

    hook standard wet fly

    Tail golden pheasant tippet

    Rib small silver ovel tinsel

    Body medium silver mylar tinsel

    Throat hot orange hackle

    Wings married stips of 4 white 6 black and 10 hot orange

     

     

    Little brook trout buck tail

    Hook 4-6 xl streamer hook

    Tail red over green buck tail

    Rib med silver flat tinsel

    Body white wool cotton yarn

    Throat orange buck tail

    Wing small clumps of orange and green buck tail and grail squirrel tail

    cheeks jungle cock

     

     

     

     

    kiwi muddler

    hook 4xl stremer

    body olive wool yarn

    under wing pearl crystal flash

    wing kite shape piece of rabbit strip

    collar head spun and clipped deer hair

     

     

    cone head zonker

    hook 3xl streamer

    head hot orange / red bead

    tail orange rabbit or marabou

    body peacock herl

    wing black rabbit strip

    collar schlappen

    other colors:

    white rabbit pearl body grizzly hackle silver cone

    olive rabbit gold body olive hackle copper cone

    brown rabbit peacock body brown hackle gold cone

     

    Double bunny

    Hook 3-4 xl streamer 2-1/0

    Wing dark over light magnum zonker strips

    sides flash a bou

    eyes stick on eyes

    head devcon five minute

     

    deciver

    hook standard salt water or strait eyed nymph

    tail 4 hackle tips crystal flash

    body silver mylar

    collar buck tail to tip of tail

    sides flashabou

    wing 4 peacock herls strands even

    eyes stick on

    head devcon

     

     

    family secret

    hook 6-7 xl streamer

    tail 15 peacock sword fibers

    rib silver embossed tinsel

    body flat silver tinsel

    throat guinea hen

    2-6 white hackles to tail

    cheecks jungle cock

     

     

     

     

    spruse fly

    hook 6 xl streamer

    tail pea cock sword fibers

    body 2/3 peacock 1/3 red yarn

    collar furnace badger hackle

    wing 4 furance badge hackle tied back to back

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Double grizzly king

    hook 2xl nymph eye cut off and 3 xl nymph joined suflon wire

    tail crimson goose flank

    rib flat silver tinsel

    body emerald embroidery floss

    collar grizzly hackle

    wing 4 grizzly hackles

    cheeks jungle cock (optional)

     

     

    gray ghost (rangely style)

    hook 8 – 10 xl stremer hook

    rib flat silver tinsel

    body orange floss

    throat long white buck tail

    beard white schalppen

    under wing long golden pheasant toping curling down

    wing 4 olive gray hackles

    shoulders silver pheasant

    cheeks jungle cock

    assemble wing shoulder check for each side and then glue together then mount slightly to the side of center

     

     

    brown drake

    hook dry size 12

    thread dark brown

    wing posted elk hair

    tail moose body hair

    body dyed golden yellow deer hair

    hackle brown or golden yellow dyed grizzly

     

    grass hopper

     

    hook dry fly size 8-10

    thread yellow

    body yellow tied bullet head style

    wing pheasant church window feather treated

    leg rubber yellow

    marker egg yarn color to suit

     

    matuka olive

    hook 2-4 xl streamer

    thread olive

    oval gold tinsel.

    wing : OLIVE DYED HEN HACKLE

    BODY OLIVE CHENILLE OR GREEN DUBBING


  3. me i do not like the spider because of the jaw it not cam lock but can be modified i think. if tying midges primary try the dyna king king fisher like so i think it's a better vice or some thing similar

     

    http://www.griffinenterprisesinc.com/accessories.html

     

     

    108 dollars for the dyna king king fisher this is the vise I should own the price was at hook hack not sure what it is a jsflffishing.com should be close to the same price

    http://www.dyna-king.com/flyvise_dtl.asp?i...v=0&pid=082

     

     

    http://www.hookhack.com/

     

     

     

     

     


  4. 1) have enough space for storage of stuff like a couple of 30 dollar dressers that you will find if they run on sale some were

    2) you need a tv dinner tray and a good chair that is comfy. dinner tray looks like what at link below i got mine for $7.99 for one not a set

    http://www.target.com/TV-Tray-Set-Natural/...rays&page=1

    3) must have a tv with dvd player

    4) i don't like having the computer in the tying area but it can double as a tying computer room. the reason is i can not do two at once when i take a break i get on the computer.

    5) keep it clean the reason i use a tv dinner tray is to keep the room clean if i got clutter on the desk it going to lose stuff and wreck stuff most of all if some thing spills on a good cape your s.o.l. this and keep a vacuum in the room

    6) a cord less phone will help so you do not have to get up wile tying when no one is home

     

     

    any ways good luck and tight lines rhino................


  5. like others said go whiting. and as for size between half and 1/4 saddles here is some thing to think about are you a pro tier if not do not get any thing bigger then a half. 1/4 should do you just fine and yes they will tie down to mostly 16 on and 14 on certain capes. best way to judge is bring a hackle gage to your local shop and do not take out the staple but measure most of the hackles with the gage and find the saddles you like best. i got a saddle in silver that all it ties is 16's perfect for me but you maybe not. any ways you can get 5-6 flies per hackle strand. so if there is 100 on a 1/4 saddle then are you going to tie 600 flies with that color maybe in your life time but not in a week. unless your a pro tier filling orders. any ways good luck and tight lines rhino...............btw i like one size smaller for my dries because of build on the tie in spot were you wrap the hackle just a tip


  6. they sell a metz grade 3 but to tell you the truth i would rather a grade 2 or 1 any ways it blue dun are you looking for light blue dun or med blue dun or dark blue dun i think i have half of a med blue dun from cabelas i can get a pic up if you need it that bad any ways good luck and tight lines rhino.............

     

     

    http://www.murraysflyshop.com/flytying_hacklecapes.html

     

     

    also try anglersworkshop.com

     

     

     

     

     

     


  7. Thanks rhino, I was thinking about the other wt rods for the reason that many of my flys are weighted so I can get them down. That and the wind makes casting harder. I use the jerk strip retreve. On that river even a weighted fly on a dead drift will not get down because of the flow in spots. I use a straight mono leader 3 - 4 ft to get it down.

    I'm open for suggestions.

    eastern fly

     

     

    i hate to suggest this but have you ever heard of chuck and duck fishing you could set up a rod for c"n"d on a 6 weight. if all there is is trout in them holes if there is steel head or Atlantic's you may want a bigger rod if not a 6 should be fine. the reason i hate to suggest c"n"d is some claim it not fly fishing. but fishing is fishing with a lot so granted some one may want to try some thing different. you can fish streamers and nymphs but no dries on a c"n"d set up and it is real easy to cast. any ways good luck and tight lines rhino.... the heaver head will not make it sink faster they do the same thing.

     

     

    http://www.trailstotrout.com/tips.html

     

     

     

     

     

     

    ....


  8. if your only going to be there for a week or two may i suggest reading leftys 101 fly fishing tips this and or pocket guide fly fishing for trout so some thing similar there small books but pack a lot of neat tips

     

    fly tying what do you use most are you going to be headed to the salmon camp in baldwin michigan this year? mite want to think of a few patterns to use there. or do some other tying etc to catch up on what you need for the next season you will encounter.as for vises use a c clamp it lighter then a pedestal's base base the bobbin on what you plan on tying if your tying no midges don't bring a midge bobbin if not tying deer hair why dring stuff for it etc... base what you bring on what you want to tie like streamers . or nymphs or even dries. any ways hope this helped good luck and tight lines rhino...................

     

     

    this one is for your friend i would suggest him this tool set a a good vise link for tool set below. before i suggest materials you have to plan on what kind of fish your chasing and ware your going to be chasing it. weather it's salt or fresh bass/ trout/ salmon/ steel/ pike/ carp / the materials differ from trout to bass and to salt. if your planing every thing i can suggest patterns and hooks/ materials for all. but it does you no good if you buy it if you do not want it. tool set at link below. if you can say a vacation spot because you got family there some time make it easier to select stuff if you been there multiple times already.

     

     

    http://www.jsflyfishing.com/cgi-bin/item/O...l-Gift-Set.html

     

     

     


  9. if your only going to be there for a week or two may i suggest reading leftys 101 fly fishing tips this and or pocket guide fly fishing for trout so some thing similar there small books but pack a lot of neat tips

     

    fly tying what do you use most are you going to be headed to the salmon camp in baldwin michigan this year? mite want to think of a few patterns to use there. or do some other tying etc to catch up on what you need for the next season you will encounter.as for vises use a c clamp it lighter then a pedestal's base base the bobbin on what you plan on tying if your tying no midges don't bring a midge bobbin if not tying deer hair why dring stuff for it etc... base what you bring on what you want to tie like streamers . or nymphs or even dries. any ways hope this helped good luck and tight lines rhino...................


  10. no showers and sleeping on the ground is fun till you do it a lot. try any kind of streamer works great really those fish eat any thing look for wild rice in the water and follow the weed line casting close to it sure to get a pike sooner or later the wild rice grows buy shore up to about 10 foot of water some time more so weed less is best used for piking since it not spring thaw and the pike are not in the shallows right now trying to spawn. i would hit the rice they will be there all winter until spawning time any ways i got bigger rod but a 7 wt should work don't forget bite guards like masons 30 pound test or even tyger wire bite guards attached to the class tippet of like 10-20 pounds if you have to try stone covered points coming off from shore a deep running line is need and a good count be fore you start to strip also. bass bugs pike flies and leaches type patterns and frogs work wonders. any ways good luck and tight lines rhino...................do not forget the chain saw just encase a beaver downs a tree on that 235 mile dirt road :rolleyes:


  11. save yourself the money and just buy a full sinking line... afterall gas aint cheap now a days

     

     

    a lot of guys do this with a full sink line and the kelly galoups jerk strip method as you can see i do not care for it but others do so more the marry if you go with the sinking line btw if your rod catches fish and lands them safely now.that's why i would not buy another one it's waste of money and time to buy a bigger rod they spook fish more then a lighter one because of the line landing harder and faster remember the latrel line on trout bass and all fish etc...if fishing bass flies use a bass taper line to turn over the line better and cast flies further it all in the taper. was not sure if it's trout or bass your after. btw casting down and across will help sink the fly and make look natural any ways good luck and tight lines rhino.......btw a short leader i.e. 2-3 foot will make the fly sink better then a 9 footer


  12. i fish a full sinking line once on the big manistee system below tippy dam here in michigan and never once did it touch bottom it a class 6 court land 444sl line if the water is moving that good you will have to improvise. are you throwing buck tails and feather wings or large bulky flies like muddler and zoo cougars and the likes if throwing the muddler and there likes use a sink tip or tie t-14 to the line just a foot or two but the real secret to get a muddler down is tie it sparse. but remember one thing if you tie it spare it will not push water like there meant to. so it not packed tight this and cone head help. as for flies like feather and buck tail wings i use a floater with no t-14 and no spit or weight just dunk you fly before casting it. this is because i strip different then most on these rivers i will do a salt strip. were i pull pause pull instead of one stead pull like the jerk strip does give the fly time to sink in between strips and it gets a darting motion. and have taken big fish because of this if it's a steady flowing river you will never hit bottom with a sinking line. btw i am using a whipped loop system i whip loop in the ends of all my fly lines and the t-14 /t-8. all you do is loop it back over it self "the fly line " and spin a bobbin around it with (g) size tying thread and whip finish and super glue with a rubber or laytex glove on so it does not stick to your skin. then it a quick change system for switching back and forth. fish do not have eyes on the bottom of there head so if it up in the top of the water up by the surface it's fine any ways hope it helps you good luck and tight lines rhino...............


  13. could try waxing a needle and dubbing it like this guy does link below. they to look real to what he does is clamp a needle in the vice then wax the needle and add a string after he ties on to it so he can attach it to the bug after dubs the body over all that. any ways could be done with laytex or maybe foam. any ways good luck and tight lines rhino...............

     

     

     

    http://www.stalcupflies.com/

     

     

     

     

     

     


  14. here is how i would fill your request you already have a vise so i would buy this for tools

     

    http://www.jsflyfishing.com/cgi-bin/item/O...l-Gift-Set.html

     

    as for materials i would wait till you read the book and figured out what you want to do like streamers you got to buy certain stuff for that fly that is in other pattens. these patterns are different from California to Maine so it's best to find some one that know the area were you live and have them teach you those flies for fishing. if it just a hobbie to tie not to fish any thing will do. any ways hope this help you good luck and tight lines rhino.....

     

     

    sorry just read first post pick up spinning deer hair with chris helm from white tail fly ting supplies in ohio you can google it and find if not pm me. this is the fist and most important video the rest follow suit because of this one also a heavy duty bobbin a pair of hair scissors it a longer blade. plenty of bass salt capes like Chinese necks and deer belly hair it best to had select this stuff for color and length and a good gsp thread and plenty of stinger hook in the sizes you prefer.

     

    this guy is awesome

    http://www.whitetailflytieing.com/

     

     

    btw if you have the kit listed above it will work but better off getting a better set up sooner or later

     

     

     

     

     

    ........


  15. Thanks Mike Ill bet the stuff strait from Mr. Edwards is great! I was shocked at the prices of the books especially for Fly Tyers Master class! the cheapest one I found was ebay for $100 I offered $50 after a couple weeks of it not selling and was fortunate enough to get the book. It was worth every cent just for the Mohican Mayfly :D I have enjoyed many of your posts thanks for the info, inspiration and hospitality.

     

     

    and to think i only paid 19.95 for mine but that was eons ago :hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst:

     

     

     

    what caused these books to cost so much???? i got randel k mans nymphs and dries may flies caddis flies etc... may b i should sell in about another 10 years they may be worth $1000's

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