Problems with silk floss

[bhaase 0]

Hi there,

 

I'm new to tying and especially interested in tying soft-hackled flies. That being said, I'd like to tie more flies using silk uni floss. The few times that I've tried using the floss, I've had difficulty with it un-winding - particularly when tying off. Might it have anything to do with using a whip finish tool? Also, am I suppposed to wrap the body in thread and tie in the floss versus no thread at all? I'm sort of only working on variations of the Orange and Partridge right now.

 

Any advice will be much appreciated. I'm really psyched to have found this website.

 

Thanks,

Blake

[Soft-hackle 0]

Hi,

There a number of different ways of working with floss. One is to tie on near the tail end, wrap the thread forward evenly, wrap the floss, tie it off, then tie on the hackle, wrap it, then complete the head and whip finish. The other way is to tie the hackle to the shank, first, near the eye, trimming off the excess stem, wrapping the thread down, evenly, to the tail end. Tie on the floss, leaving enough on the hank to overwrap with the thread. Bring the thread back down the shank, evenly, overwrapping the tag end of the floss. Leave room for the thorax if you are going to have one. Wrap the floss evenly over the body and tie it off with the thread and trim any excess off. Dub your thorax, wrap the hackle and complete the fly.

 

Uni floss is not silk, it's synthetic, and these flosses have a tendency to slip, which is why some floss bodies are ribbed with wire and tinsel. You must also be careful if your hands are rough, because the floss can fray easily. Many tiers use silk gloves when handling floss to prevent this. It's wise to do this with flosses of silk and synthetic. Also make sure the tying thread is wrapped evenly under the floss or you'll get bumps. You can also burnish your tying thread with a clean dubbing needle before wrapping the floss over it.

 

Floss can be tricky--practice with it.

 

Mark

[bhaase 0]

Thanks, Mark. I really appreciate the advice. I've been climbing weekly for about 11 years and the condition of my hands really don't help with the use of floss. I had never thought about wearing gloves while tying. While it is a bit frustrating for me right now, it certainly seems worthwhile.

 

Do you have any feelings on silk versus thread? I guess I'm interested in the silk for two reasons - one is that it's sort of the original call in the recipe - and two is because the colors available seem to be more vibrant than the thread options. I wonder, however, if that's really the case regarding the colors available. Hmm.

 

Thanks again,

Blake

[Soft-hackle 0]

Hi Blake,

I believe that fly patterns are open to interpretation, and substituting synthetic floss for silk isn't going to affect how the fish like the fly. Some believe silk is more translucent when it gets wet. I love the shine real silk, and use it occasionally for certain patterns, but I use synthetic floss as well.

 

All that being said, Some years back, I was trying to imitate a natural fly that hatches in May on my home river. It is Ephemerella dorothea. This fly has a distinctive orange cast to the body, and I tried a number of flies to try to match it. Finally, while I was mulling around the craft section of a local department store, I spotted trays of embroidery floss/thread. It is made from cotton, comes in small skeins, is inexpensive, and comes in tons of colors. I spotted a very creamy orange color, and decided it would be perfect for the abdomen of a soft-hackle. I purchased a skein, developed the fly, and when dorothea and other creamy orange colored flies are around my Lil'Dorothy does the job quite nicely.

 

The point I'm trying to make is, many of the early tiers tied flies with the materials they had on hand and that worked for them. You, as fly tier, have a great opportunity to make patterns that fit the water you fish. If you intend to tie for show, display, etc. , following traditional patterns and using traditional materials is great and lots of fun. It ties us to the past and our history. The fish, on the other hand, are looking for something that looks like their food, and putting together materials to match that food gives us flies that catch fish.

 

I love the historical patterns and their history, but when I get streamside, I enjoy catching the occasional fish--not that traditional patterns won't do that, but I'll paraphrase Leisenring by saying, I want to fish flies that please the fish, and if that means I've got to alter a pattern or develop a new one, then I do so.

 

Look at the embroidery threads, they are easy to use. I use one strand from the twist of the thread. Doing it like this, a skein should last for a long time.

 

If I can help in any way, let me know,

Mark

 

PS: Here is Lil'Dorothy

[Cagolddigger 0]

I also just started tying soft hackle flies.

The problem I am having is the floss (unifloss) slipping on the butt end. I start the floss up by the thorax with 2-3 turns to tie it down, wrap to the back and back up to the starting point and unwind my thread and tie the floss down. I'm not sure if this a good way to do it, but it just made sense to me to keep the floss from getting a big bump. For some reason the floss slips on the butt end and I'm not sure why. Are the wraps too loose? Do I need a thread base down the entire length of the hook?

 

Also, is there any links to some good tips or directions for applying floss?

 

[Cagolddigger 0]

It is amazing what the search function can do for you. :dunno:

 

I found lots of good info.

 

It seems I was not laying down a base. So I will try that and see if it solves my problem. Makes sense, without it the floss can move around. Trial and error.

[Soft-hackle 0]

I also just started tying soft hackle flies.

The problem I am having is the floss (unifloss) slipping on the butt end. I start the floss up by the thorax with 2-3 turns to tie it down, wrap to the back and back up to the starting point and unwind my thread and tie the floss down. I'm not sure if this a good way to do it, but it just made sense to me to keep the floss from getting a big bump. For some reason the floss slips on the butt end and I'm not sure why. Are the wraps too loose? Do I need a thread base down the entire length of the hook?

 

Also, is there any links to some good tips or directions for applying floss?

 

 

Floss will slip like this. I could be the base you tie over, but not necessarily. To help prevent this, put a couple turns of wire at the tail end of the body and rib the entire body with wire. It helps keep the floss in place. Use gold. copper, or silver wire. Tinsel will help, too.

 

Mark

[letumgo 0]

Cagolddigger - Here are a couple other options to try to solve the floss slipping problem:

 

Option 1 - When you wrap the floss body, leave a long tag end of the floss hanging out over the bend of the hook (picture it as a single strand of floss as a 3 to 4" long tail). Wrap the main floss forward toward the front of the hook. After four or five wraps, stop and pull the floss tail/tag end over the top of the body and then wrap over it with the main floss. Clip off the excess tag end and finish wrapping the body. The tag end will trap the floss and prevent it from slipping down the bend of the hook.

 

Option 2 - Give the body a thin coat of superglue and let it dry for a couple minutes. The body will dry clear and be smooth as glass. It is not very "traditional", buy it makes a VERY durable body and it looks very nice on fishing flies.

 

Hope this helps.

[Cagolddigger 0]

Thanks guys.

 

I will try them out.

[bhaase 0]

Yes, thanks guys for all the advice. As I said in the original post, I'm really happy to have found this website. I'm sure I'll be visiting with more questions often.

 

Blake