so many flies so little time

[dennywaynecody 0]

5 years ago a friend took me fishing, didn't catch much from shore.

4 yrs ago I picked up a great little river boat, started catching fish and loved it.

3 yrs ago another friend took me winter steelhead fishing on the Manistee with fly rods, changed me forever!

2 yrs ago we went back to the Manistee armed with spey rods, sink tips, streamers & tubes.

I'm standing in the river in 20 deg. weather in a blizzard, near white out conditions, down stream my buddy is fighting a big steelhead, he's down to his backing, the fish is running and jumping all over the river and up ubove the fish which is quite a ways down from him is an Eagle circling overhead looking for dinner.

It was a religious experience. ( can you say Norman Rockwell )

This year I wanted to try some summer fishing, my wife and I went to Vermont for our summer vacation and we camped RIGHT ON THE BATTENKILL.( and we saw Norman Rockwell's house ) To good to be true, and she let me hire a guide to take me out, it wasn't even my b-day. I caught small rainbows all day, the guide was dumfounded at my delight at catching these small fish as most of his clients were big spenders and wanted nothing less than trophy fish.

Sorry I tend to ramble sometimes.

My question;

My fly box is set up for winter fishing-streamers tubes,nymphs,ect. I want to start a collection for summer so I found some hatch charts for michigan from trout unlimited, this should give me a good general selection for a pattern and size for any month in Michigan rivers , give or take a couple weeks and weather patterns, right?

We camp all over Michigan so I may fish any river. At home I fish Paint Creek and the Clinton river on a regular basis.

Starting with a generalized set of patterns is a little daunting as I'm looking at about a hundred different patterns, should I down size things a little?

 

thanks for any response.

Denny

 

[peregrines 0]

Denny-

 

Your hatch chart should give you a very good idea of what to expect for other streams in Michigan. The UP may be a couple weeks later, but many of the hatches will be the same, and they tend to follow the same seasonal pattern year to year.

 

That being said, some streams will get more or less of a given hatch, and some may a few have hatches that others don't, but there will still be a lot of stuff in common. Just as an example streams with rocky bottoms and fast water often tend to have more stones than slower water with silty bottoms which tend to have more drakes. But you'll find BWO's on both.

 

As far as patterns go, if you tie you can simplify things by tying Comparaduns (or Sparkleduns) for mayflies, and X Caddis for most caddis Just vary size body color and wing color (coastal deerhair) light, medium, dark, For large caddis and stones, Stimulators would be a good bet.

 

I'd concentrate on the major hatches remaining in the season, picking the smaller of 2 sizes first, so if a fly is listed as 12-14, go with the 14 since a 14 is more likely to be accepted if the naturals are a 12 than the other way around if you're looking at tying or buying a lot of stuff...

 

For emergers a16 partridge and orange and a 14 green emergent sparkle pupa would cover a lot of mayfly and caddis.

 

Nymphs a BH Prince 12 or more exact Isonychia nymph pattern, 16 pheasant tail and a GRHE 14 would probably be a good start.

 

hope this helps somewhat...

 

peregrines

[Chase Creek 0]

peregrines has some great suggestions, and I don't think I can add much to his advice. I fish small streams that flow into the Manistee for Brookies. I've had a lot of success with soft hackles (Partridge & Orange, etc.)Don't forgrt the terrestrials - ants and beetles (both floating and sinking) always come through, also grasshoppers later in the summer. I keep a small box for terrestials in my vest no matter where I'm fishing.

I envy your position in the sport - trying new things, new places. Have fun with it.

[Soft-hackle 0]

Denny,

Start out with a modest selection, some good flies have already been suggested. Don't overdo it. Try to select flies that will represent a number of different local insects to begin. Look, observe, and take notes. Start a stream diary and record information that tells about the insects you saw, the abundance of the hatch, time of day, outside air and water temperatures and weather conditions. Get a good book that will help you identify local insects. There are many available. This will give you a better idea as to what you will need for where you live. Insects vary from state to state, stream to stream in color, size and importance. This first hand experience and good records will help you identify what insects you have where you fish. Armed with this knowledge, you will be better equipped to select the correct flies. The only other alternative you have is to hook-up with an experienced fly fisherman, locally, that can show you all of this from their own experience. It is still fun to observe yourself, though, and keep a diary.

 

Mark

[rhinorods69 0]

i can see were it a problem with that book funny thing is about 50% of the flies listed in the book by challenge chapter of trout unlimited is bwo's were are hard to fish on big water such as the big man but on a calm slack water such as the upper parts of the big man up buy mio and the ausab are perfect for these flies now on the swift rocky bottom of the big man below tippy dam to almost to the lake is stone flies some wigglers and about 80% caddis so every river has a difference nice thing about the tu book is it gives type of river bottom of were to find the flies at so it help identify what the fish are eating plus the books may flies and caddis flies will help figure out what flies are in that book from tu same with randall kafuman's book dries and the other book nymphs will help to it took me a better part of 5 years to figure out about 60% of the tu book and 50 % of those are just bwo's if you catch that drift it will be a pain funny thing is there is about 5-8 pattrens for most bugs in the book and i only know about 10% of them so if there is 200 bugs i only know the correct color and size for about 20 of them lol if you need any help i will be more then willing to share what i know any ways fire away good luck and tight lines rhino................btw i can take some awesome pic thanks to these boards on here

 

[dennywaynecody 0]

Great replies thanks so much.

I was thinking I would have to tie a dozen each of may flies, caddis, and stones. If I can tie a couple of each that resemble the many varieties then I won't be so hard pressed to tie so many types. I do like a challenge but the pocket book is just so deep.

I have about 7 colors in

maraboo

chenille

feathers ( the cheep stuff )

2 colors of Aussom possom

a 12 pack of the wrong dubbing ( the real bright floresent colors )

a ton of pheasant wings and breast or neck? hackles? ( still learning the terms )

bucktail 6 colors

lemon wood duck

grizzly dry hackle

dry fly saddle in brwn & black ( can I use the cheep feathers on the dries or stay with the good stuff ) ?

streamer hair

elk

squirell tail

guinea plumage

peacock hurl

krystal flash ( 3 colors )

antron yarn

I've tied plenty of caddis and tube flies for winter but have yet to do a dry or a stone. I have looked at some that are posted on this site and WOW, so now thanks to all you guys I want to do some realistics and put them in a shadow box on the wall. I'm gonna need a bigger pay check!

I think with the materials I have I should be able to tie up a good basic bunch that will give me a decent selection on the river.

Thanks Peregrine and the rest for the help.

OH 1 more thing if I may,

The guide I had showed me how to use 2 flies on the line, but I don't remember how he tied the tippet to the leader. He left a long tag end for a dropper for an ant , worked real good to. Do I use the standard dbl. surgens knot and leave a long tag from the tippet or leader? or is there a better knot to use?

again thanks for any help

Denny

P.S. I will try to put some pics of what I tied on my photo gallery. I did tie 1 dry, what a train wreck.

P.S.S. what is a BWO? please

[Lucky489 0]

BWO = Blue Wing Olive

[CoachBob 0]

BWO=blue winged olive

 

For trout there are essentially three ways to rig a double dropper:

(1) Tie slightly larger tippet (e.g. 5x) to the end of the leader with a triple surgeon's knot then tie the first dropper to the tippet with any of the following knots: improved clinch, Pitzen, Palomar (the best knot but requires a larger eye), or Uni. I have known guides to put the first dropper on a perfection loop or Rapala knot, but that's not my preference.

(2) Then use smaller tippet for the second dropper and tie one end of the second tippet to:

(a) around the first tippet above the knot for the first dropper. This is a perpendicular line-to-line attachment many fishermen prefer -- but not me.

( to the bend of the hook of the first dropper (This is convenient and a favorite among many fishermen.) or

© to the eye of the first dropper with a similar knot as (1). (This may not be possible due to the size of the eye, but if it can be done, it is a very effective way to rig.)

The second dropper should be about 12" below the first.

 

 

For panfish the best approach is to use 6lb. Vanish flourocarbon tied to the leader with a triple surgeons knot then use option © above and again use 6lb. Vanish for the second dropper. Panfish are not nearly as line shy as trout and will tear up small tippet (or you will break it because they require a harder hook set).

 

Why a triple surgeon's knot? Because it is easier to tie than other options, and a blood knot or double Pitzen is the next best choice -- neither is as simple or fast as the surgeon's.

 

[dennywaynecody 0]

blue wing olive-duh - thanks

 

that was the first fly I was planning on tying as it is shown for most summer months.

Keeping it small sounds like a good idea to.

Thanks CoachBob for the coaching on the tippet to leader.

OK can I bug ya for 2 more questions?

1. can I use the cheep feathers for dries or should I use the good stuff?

2. dry fly flotant- scotch guard- rain x- spend the money on the right stuff?

You guys have been great , thank you for your patience and knowledge.

denny

[rhinorods69 0]

blue wing olive-duh - thanks

 

that was the first fly I was planning on tying as it is shown for most summer months.

Keeping it small sounds like a good idea to.

Thanks CoachBob for the coaching on the tippet to leader.

OK can I bug ya for 2 more questions?

1. can I use the cheep feathers for dries or should I use the good stuff?

2. dry fly flotant- scotch guard- rain x- spend the money on the right stuff?

You guys have been great , thank you for your patience and knowledge.

denny

 

 

yes you can use the cheap stuff but small flies are almost impossible like 18's and smaller

as for dry fly stuff the only stuff i used was float know aquael from loon i think is what it is called i also use xink on the leader up to the fly so the leader breaks the surface tension and can not be seen

[peregrines 0]

Denny-

 

I’ll try and answer some of your questions:

 

Feathers cheap stuff- this is probably 4-6” long, with long, soft webby barbs. Good for tailing material on nymphs and wets, and the wound or “palmered” hackle on buggers. You could also probably use it for collars on salmon and steelhead wets, and tails on streamers for bass/pike/salt water. Not likely to be good for dries.

 

12 pack of “wrong” dubbing- some colors may be good- caddis bodies can be sort of an electric green or orange, and black is good if you have it for some caddis and stones, and it’s all good for steelhead/salmon

pheasant feathers- 10” long tail feathers are good to have (pheasant tail nymph). Body feathers can be used for soft hackles on wet flys. Legs and tails on nymphs. Tons of uses. You may also have grouse or partridge body feathers, which can be used for soft hackle, legs and tails on nymphs.

 

Dry Fly saddle- You’ll want to use this, the good stuff for dries. Stiff barbs of uniform length, straight (not twisted) thin stems. Much easier to work with, and better flotation for dries than the cheap stuff. Good dry hackle can be very very costly, and this is a whole ‘nuther conversation. My advice would be to post to the board for good suggestions based on what patterns and sizes you decide to tie before you buy more. The good news is that brown and grizzly saddles are great for the most popular medium to large sizes and colors. You can mix them as well as using them alone to get a range of shades. Saddles usually tie in arrange of 3 sizes 10-12-14, 12-14-16 etc. Depending how long they are, you could get up to 5-6 flies out of the same saddle hackle.

 

Yes, you have a great selection of materials. You’ll probably need some other stuff depending on what you want to tie. And I hear you about wanting to keep costs down. If you want I’ll list out some more options too if you want for you to consider and explain why, but you’ve got a great start with what you have. And it’s always a good idea to buy stuff for just a pattern or two at a time instead of everything at once and then forget which stuff goes with what patterns.

 

Rigging droppers- CoachBob nailed it

 

BWO= yup, blue winged olive (sorry)

 

Fly floatant- I use a paste type (Dab or Gink) but don’t use it on flies with CDC. Some folks pretreat their dries with Rainex which works too. I also use those silica crystal/powder things (Loon and others) for restoring flies that have been gummed/slimed/bedraggled by trout.

 

I’ll poke around for some links about those patterns (x caddis, comparaduns) for you to take a look at tomorrow.

 

peregrines

 

 

[Soft-hackle 0]

Denny,

You have gotten some rather specific answers, however, I'm confused as to your dropper. Were you fishing wet, dry or combined. Some people fish a dry with a wet dropper below. Others fish a cast of wet flies. To give a specific answer as to how to "set-up" a dropper rig, these things should be considered.

 

Again, my advice to you regarding materials is start out small and build your collection of stuff. Going hog wild on selecting materials IS expensive no matter what you get. Wet fly materials can be less costly unless you start looking for lots of traditional hackles like snipe, coot, etc. etc. For the most part different hen hackle and some reasonable dubbing materials like Hare's ear or mask, fine gold wire, etc. will start you out. This does not mean you are looking for "cheap" stuff. You want the best materials you can afford for the best results.

 

peregrines answer to you is quite thorough. Select a few patterns you wish to duplicate and start by getting materials to duplicate them. Gradually add to your selection and the materials you need to construct them. Many beginning tiers jump in too quickly, spend a lot of money, and are dissatisfied with their results. IMO, they go too fast. Take it slow, develop your tying techniques. Concentrate on a few patterns and perfecting them, then move on to more difficult stuff. Start out with larger patterns, which are easier to tie, then work down to smaller patterns and hooks. It's a learning process that should be built from easy to more difficult.

 

Mark

[CoachBob 0]

Good quality dry fly hackle is almost obligatory.

 

Albolene (see thread named "flotant") is probably your best and cheapest option.

 

 

[peregrines 0]

Denny,

 

Here are some links I promised for tying those Comparadun/Sparkle Dun/X Caddis dries I mentioned, and a relatively inexpensive materals list for them. I also included some links for tying mayfly spinners:

 

Micro Fibrettes- a synthetic nylon bristle for tails on mayfly dries. Get a pack of light dun for now. You may want to add other stuff like cream, ginger and medium dun down the road but light dum will work for just about everything.You want something long and stiff to support large dry flies, and some of the other dries you’ll see soon. These will work well, and you may not have good stuff for tails. A pack of fibbettes is about $2-3

 

Fine Synthetic dubbing- for dry flies. Superfine assortment Group A is an assortment of body colors that will imitate most of your mayflies and caddis (Group B is more for western stuff). This won’t absorb water like the coarser nymph stuff. About $11 with the colors and dispenser. Add a pack of white for $1.50 for white flies if you're going to fish them in August. You don’t need both nymph and dry types of dubbing though you may want to get the coarser nymph stuff at some point too. There many other good choices as well. assortments you could get the dry fly stuff and pick it out with a bodkin after you’re done to get a buggier looking nymph or flymph.

 

Coastal Deer Hair (aka Comparahair)- This is short and fine deer hair and is not the same as bucktail or the deer body hair used in spinning bass bugs and muddler heads. You would use this in dry flies instead of hackle. A patch of comparahair runs about $2 and you’ll get about 100 flies out of each patch. If you got 4 patches: bleached (cream colored), light (a natural light gray/ light dun), medium (medium gray/medium dun), and dark (dark brownish gray/dark dun) you’ll pretty much nail the wing colors of all the mays and caddis. If you can pick it out yourself, look for patches with small amounts of black on the tips. Most have black tips, and if the black is long, all your small flies will have black wings.

 

CDC feathers- CDC = Cul de Canard = French for duck butt. These are feathers from the preen glands of ducks and have water shedding properties. They give good flotation for dries, are very easy to work with, and make tying small flies a snap. Colors white or cream, and light dun, medium dun and dark dun. They’re about $2-3 a pack

 

Aunt Lydias Sparkle Yarn, Antron etc. For shucks on Sparkle Duns and X Caddis, colors amber for most) and cream (for light bodied mays/caddis. You may already have it, if not you can usually find skeins at a craft store for $1, enough to last 12 lifetimes, or pay $2-3 at a fly shop for 10 yds,

 

Tools that are helpful, but you may already have already:

 

Hackle pliers-“English” style or plastic push button type for winding hackle on dries and wets. $2

 

Hair stacker- for stacking tips of deer and elk hair. Get the kind with two different sized ends for stacking both small hair and medium hair. $3-5

 

Hackle gauge – This is a little gizmo that attaches to the stem of your vice for sizing hackle to hook size. Griffin makes a good one for around $3-4

 

Between the assortment of dry fly dubbing, the colors of the micro fibettes, and the cdc, coastal deer hair, and elk you have already, and different size hooks, you’ll be able to imitate pretty much all the may flies and caddis with essentially one pattern “style”. You’ll still end up tying a lot of flies in different sizes and color combinations, to match hatches, but they’ll all use the same basic inexpensive materials. And they catch.

 

There are several pattern’s listed, but they only have minor differences in materials, and the tying is different based on the shape of the wing- mayflies tied in tips forward, caddis tips back. Keep the bodies thin on mayflies, they can be a little fatter on caddis. After you cut the hair off the hide hold firmly by the tips and pluck out the fuzz (no need for a special comb) and stack it.

 

Take a look:

 

Comparadun: (mayfly dun imitation)

http://www.flyguysoutfitting.com/bwocomparadun.html

 

X Caddis: (caddis adult/emerger/cripple imitation)

http://www.flyguysoutfitting.com/grannomxcaddis.html

 

Sparkle Dun: This is an imitation of a mayfly trapped in its shuck. In that respect it’s a 2 for 1 pattern in that it imitates both an emerger and a dun. It’s also an easier tie than the comparadun if you have trouble splitting the tails. It’s just a comparadun style wing (mayfly) with an x-caddis shuck instead of a split tail.

http://www.flyfisherman.com/Learn2Tie/sparkledun/index.html

 

Variations:

 

cdc wing comparadun: for tiny mayfly duns, and caddis 20-26 and mayfly spinners 16-24. Much easier to work than deer hair on small dries. Most folks tie it with fibrettes for tail, not with krystal flash as in the link here:

http://www.flytyingforum.com/pattern6653.html

 

cdc elk: caddis adults in a variety of sizes and mayfly duns in smaller sizes, can also use comparahair instead of or with elk to get the wing shade you want.

http://www.danica.com/flytier/hweilenmann/cdcelk.htm

 

As an example of how this might work, you probably have the following hatches either going on now or coming up on your hatch chart. I’ll give the dun recipe along with the nymph and spinner too if you want to mess with them. (They can be very productive for both the slate drake and white fly hatches).

 

Slate Drake, aka Mahogany Dun, (Isonychia) 12-14

Comparadun style:

Hook: size 14 standard dry fly hook, Mustad 98480 etc.

Thread:_ Brown (black)

Tail: light dun Micro Fibrettes

Body: dark brown

Wing: dark deer hair

 

Nymph imitation: size 12 nymph hook Mustad 9671 or 9672 etc. or use a dry fly hook if you don’t have a nymph hook. Gold Ribbed Hares Ear style using dark brown dubbing for body. You could also use a peacock “rope” body like on a Prince Nymph with pheasant fibers as a tail instead of biots on the (prince). The Iso nymphs swim to shallows to emerge, and this is a great nymph to fish. You can strip them in, they’re good swimmers. Either version is a good choice for steelhead as a good winter/spring stonefly nymph imitation if you want to kill two birds with one rock. Pheasant body or lemon wood duck for legs, a few squirrel fibers for tail and peacock herl wing pad.

 

Spinner: tail body same as dun, No wing, just a wound hackle wing (ginger and medium dun) substitute grizzly. The hackle you use on these patterns can be the same size as the hook or up to 2 hook sizes bigger ie a 12 hook could take a 12, 10 or 8 size hackle. You can leave “in the round” to skitter on the surface. If that doesn’t work, I cut the hackle with a small pair of scissors on stream into an inverted V on the bottom, or both top and bottom leaving hackle on the sides to fish flush with the surface. You’d be using different materials, but this is the look you’d be going for:

http://www.classictrout.com/dryflies/d/dunvariant.php

 

White Fly (Ephoron) 12-14:

Comparadun style:

Hook: size 12-14 dry fly (they come out at evenings so a 12 is easier to see than a 14)

Thread white (cream, yellow ,tan)

Tails: light dun Micro Fibbettes

Body: white or cream

Wing: bleached deer hair (creamy whitish rather than light gray)

Cheater tip: Tie your 12’s in bleached white wing/white body and all/some of your 14’s in Light Cahill colors: Light wing/yellowish creamy body/light dun tails

 

Nymph: size 12 or even 10 nymph hook tied Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear style with cream dubbing. Pheasant body or lemon wood duck fibers for tail, legs and wing pad wood duck fibers.

 

Spinner: white body, white CDC wings or wound cream hackle no wings (substitute grizzly) tied the same way as the Iso Spinner above

 

Blue Wing Olives 16-24 (Actually this represents many different species which hatch throughout the season)

CDC BWO Comparadun or Sparkle Dun

Hook: size 16-20 standard dry. If you’re crazy and want to go smaller use an up eye dry hook for smaller than 20 and just olive thread, no dubbing for body. I would start with a 16.

Thread : Olive (black, brown)

Tails: Dun Micro Fibbettes, or use amber colored sparkle yarn for tail, it’ll be easier on a smaller hook.

Body: Olive Dubbing:

Wing: Medium Dun CDC tied in comparadun style. You can tie these down to 20 using the medium gray shade deer hair, but cdc will be easier to use on a smaller hook for now. tis one of the ones that you want to look for on stream some have lighter or darker wings, but medium is a good choice, and body color can vary too, typically darker in spring and fall, lighter in summer.

 

Nymph: PTN (this is a quiz). I will tie them in 16 and rarely 18, and don't go smaller though some do.

 

Spinner: Rusty body, cream cdc wings, light dun fibbettes for tails. Most BWOs have a rusty brown body, as do many other mays.

 

For a general idea of body/wing/tail colors for specific hatches, sites like

 

www.troutnut.com

 

have pics of naturals. But as Soft Hackle pointed out, colors and sizes can vary from stream to stream, so observing and taking notes is a great idea.

 

For large mayfly drakes: you might want to go with specific nymph, emerger dun and spinner imitations for these for major hatches like the Hex out there. If you want to try comparadun style, rather than futzing with extended bodies, use a long shank hook to have a lighter overall weight and smaller hook gap than trying to tie them on a huge standard dry. I tie dun drakes comparadun style, using a 4x long, standard wire streamer hook like Mustad #79580 or AC 79580, Daichi 2220, Partridge D4A etc. I use a size 8 4xl hook for the Green Drakes we get here, and your Hexes are probably even bigger so probably a 8 or 6 4xl ??? But they're probablly all over now so you won't have to worry about them for awile.

 

For drake spinners, instead of a deer hair wing, I use wound hackle and leave “in the round” to skitter on the surface like the ISO spinner. Just be aware that the spinners may have different coloration in the body and wings (usually lighter and more transparent) than the duns.

 

Hope this makes some sort of sense...

 

peregrines