Hairstacker

I see, thanks!

Great stuff! I really like the looks of your black peacock blend and how it brings several colors together. I've always been a big fan of blending, even if a given commercial dubbing essentially represents the main color I'm looking for. M.R. Montgomery in his book, "The Way of the Trout," speculated that fish may key in on a certain color and that the color only has to be present and doesn't necessarily have to be the predominant color of the fly. Ever since I read that, I've sought to include a mix of colors where it made sense, even if the overall color of the fly wasn't intended to change. It's also why I've tended to gravitate towards fur on the skin, like hare's masks, which always include a blend of different shades as compared to most commerical blends that tend to be fairly monotone. In any event, that's cool you're building up an inventory of your favorite blends like that! -- Mike

That is sweet! -- Mike

I really like that one in the front but the one in the back looks like it died and all that's left is its skeleton. Just kidding! Nice tie! -- Mike

Excellent point. I've seen Chris Helm demonstrate the method you describe and I actually do it both ways. Sometimes I think I might get a little more control by just holding it up underneath because when you spin the hair over, sometimes it will run into the hair already stacked behind it and cause it to distribute in a somewhat diagonal manner, if you know what I mean. But that may just be me. For purposes of teaching here, I thought it would be simpler to describe and have someone understand how to just hold it underneath. But I do hear what you're saying, excellent point. -- Mike

So Hairstacker, even though You and Jack Ellis aren't as renowned experts as Helm and Whitlock, I'd be proud to call you one of my cohorts if it okay. My belief is that the experts are experts at what they do and have found to work for themselves and many of the best experts change their opinions and ideas once published or even showed off, not that Helm or Whitlock will here. However, I did give this some more thought and I do think that with larger hooks like Helm and Whitlock typically tie on, you have more leeway in tying farther down in the bend. Ellis, myself and possibly you, tie weedguards on smaller hooks with a smaller hook gap and shorter shank, which means you don't have the large gaps and distances to span with your mono and can get away with less thread guiding mono. Also, like you, I don't need an expert to tell me when something I'm doing that is working is wrong. If it were wrong and didn't work, I wouldn't be doing it. While some other methods may work as well, some are overkill. I'm always trying to reduce the amount of time spent at the vise even if it is reducing my weedguard thread wraps by about ten or so. You know to, the bend of the hook is a funny thing, it usually starts much farther up than most people think. If you measure where the bend starts at the end of the shank which is just above the rear of the hook point and where it ends which is where the hook point starts then the halfway point is actually what appears to be a third as you measure vertically from shank to point. Where as if you tie down vertically halfway, you are really tying almost three quarter down in to the bend as measured around the bend. That probably doesn't make much sense, I'd have to show you. Kirk Kirk, I feel honored that you would consider me for one of your cohorts. Truly. I was delighted to read your comments, as they mirror my thoughts on the matter. I too respect Helm and Whitlock for their abilities and years of experience but I suspect you and I have been doing this for a while too and that our opinions on this matter are no less educated and valid based on our own experiences. Your comments about the configuration of the hook bend are quite clear and I agree. As you already know, if you look at a Tiemco TMC8089 bass bug hook, which is what I used in the fly pictured above, there is quite a lot of hook bend before it goes vertical, just as you've noted. To be honest, I just don't see any advantage in tying further down the hook bend than I do. So why do it? In fact, I don't tie more than 1/3 of the way down on any size Tiemco TMC8089 or Gamakatsu B10S stinger-styled bass bug hook. If there's a rationale for tying down further, I'd sure like to hear it. :dunno: -- Mike

Fortunately, you can still get a pack of 10 blades at Wal Mart for about $2. With that said, I've seen similar packs sold in drugstores for around $10. When you've lived long enough, you come to the realization the things you really like or need will eventually be either discontinued or "improved" in some negative way. I have worried for some time now that these blades have gone out of fashion and may someday disappear from the market, so every time I visit a Wal Mart, I buy a pack. I have quite a stockpile now and my goal is a lifetime supply just in case they stop carrying 'em.

Man, great collection of flies! I see you have plans to spend a lot of time on the Delta this season . . . armed with those, you're going to slay them. -- Mike

By the way, the fly I pictured above was tied with both deer body hair (black and brown) and deer belly hair (yellow). -- Mike

Oh, I don't know . . . . they make this hair stacker that I've preferred above all others I've tried -- you can see if the hair tips are aligned due to the space between the bottom of the tube and the base, and I really like how the tube pivots out when you want to take the hair out: I haven't tried any of their other tools, which as you say may not be very good. -- Mike

You can buy deer belly and body hair in any fly shop and probably a thousand places online. Many will tell you the very best source is Chris Helm -- just google his name and you'll get to his online flyshop. Both deer belly hair and deer body hair is sold in multiple colors. Deer body hair typically comes in earthier color tones, while deer belly hair is typically much brighter. Moreover, if you're looking for certain very bright shades like white or bright yellow, you're only going to find it in deer belly hair. Even a given color will vary between the two types of hair -- for example, red deer body hair is typically a darker shade than red deer belly hair. Both types of hair work really well, although some have their preferences; for example, many folks prefer deer belly hair of the two. I don't get hung up on it and tend to use them interchangeably, picking one over the other based on the specific color shade I want for a particular fly, so I typically keep a bunch of both types in many colors on hand. -- Mike

Fascinating, I didn't realize you used bucktail for the whole fly. I would not use bucktail for stacking or spinning; instead, use hair labelled and sold as either "deer belly hair" or "deer body hair." -- Mike

The Brassie will certainly help but remember that "packing" is only half the task of getting a really tight bug. Just as importantly, you must stack multiple stacks of hair of sufficient quantity.

Thank you, I appreciate the comment but getting hair packed tight is actually fairly easy for anyone to learn and do, ideally with proper instruction but possible through trial and error, which is how I learned. The hardest part in tying deer hair bugs that challenges even the masters is to align different colors really well all around the hook, whether it's simply a transition from one color to another or to have symmetrically shaped and placed stripes and spots. -- Mike

It depends on what you're tying. If you're tying deer divers and what-not with very solid heads, there really is no substitute for a folded-over double-edged razor blade if you want a smooth and rounded contoured head. In other words, double-edged razor blades are superior for shaving very tightly packed hair. They are also great for creating a flat bottom on deer hair bugs. Scissors are superior for trimming less densely packed hair, for trimming near areas like the tail where you don't want to accidentally lop something off, or for shaping certain areas like the collar on a Dahlberg or the face of a popper (both of which are less densely packed). -- Mike

This has evolved into an interesting discussion regarding how far down to tie the weedguard. . . . I too have felt Kirk's concern that if tied too far down, the rear of the guard will be less flexible for hook setting; consequently, I typically only tie down about 1/3 of the way, as shown in this diver I tied a few years ago. You can see that despite it only being tied down 1/3 of the way, the mono follows the hook shape very nicely. I like there to be about a 3/16" distance between hook point and the guard:

Actually, I do expect my HMH Standard to last a lifetime. I think I've tied on it now for, what, 6 years? And it and its jaws show absolutely zero signs of wear. I'm also completely confident that in the totally unexpected event something does wear out or even more unlikely break, that HMH will take care of it. One of the anecdotal stories they used to have on their website (I don't know if it's still there) was of a case where a commercial tyer had worn a set of jaws after many tens of thousands of flies -- HMH replaced them for free. So, given its durability combined with the lifetime warranty and a company that will back it up, it is in essence a lifetime vise.

These types of vise threads are impossible because everyone will pipe in with their own, favorite vise. With that said, I am the proud owner of my own beloved HMH Standard vise. -- Mike

Are you kidding us? Post and then post some more! As far as I'm concerned, this is a unique opportunity that doesn't come along very often and would love to hear any insights you've gleaned from owning and studying these bugs. -- Mike

Man, you are so fortunate to have such a great collection, good for you! Must provide a lot of satisfaction to pull them out on a cold winter evening and relax and look them over and think back to when these bugs were being crafted and used to catch fish in a different time. Thank you much for sharing them here! -- Mike

Very sweet! Love that middle picture -- beautiful colors. -- Mike

Very nice! I like how you patterned the hair on the sides -- very cool. -- Mike

I've seen them in the shaving sections of drugstores as well, although they tend to be much more expensive there. Since I typically use one blade per fly, I try to find the cheapest ones available.

Are those two pictures of the same fly? Not bad! You just need to use more hair and it will tighten up. Try this -- when doing the head (eyeball and forward), hold a healthy stack of hair (couple or 3 pencils thick) on top of the hook shank, wrap a couple of thread wraps over the middle of it, and while holding the hair in place, cinch it tight, causing the hair to completely flare without letting the hair move around the hook. Add a few more thread wraps as tightly as possible short of cutting through the hair to tightly secure it in place. Then hold another healthy stack underneath the hook directly under this stack and do the same thing, making the thread wraps go over exactly the same spot where the thread wraps were made on the previous stack of deer hair. Then hold another healthy stack of deer hair on top of the previously stacked deer hair on top and again make the thread wraps go over exactly the same spot as previously -- in other words, you should end up with 3 healthy stacks of hair on the hook (2 on top and 1 on the bottom) with all the thread wraps exactly on top of each other. Add a few more thread wraps to tightly secure the whole bundle, move the thread in front of the hair, and do a few thread wraps and half-hitches on the hook shank. Then push (i.e., pack) the whole bundle and thread wraps towards the rear of the hook as hard as you can. Repeat the above until you can no longer push hair back from the hook eye. When you get to the very eye of the hook, you can go down to just one stack on top and one on the bottom but again these should be equal-sized to each other. If there's still an 1/8" of room behind the eye, pack the hair rearward as hard as you can and then add another bundle of hair on top and the bottom. Do not fill up the front of the hook with thread wraps, as it will never look as nicely as it would if this area was filled up with hair instead. You can alter the colors of the hair stacks as you've done to create a multi-colored fly. Initially, though, focus on developing a feel for grabbing the hair on the hide and cutting off bundles of hair of the same size for a given group of three. This is a critically important skill to develop if you want to end up tying deer hair bass flies with colors that line up and are symmetrical. Once you get a feel for being able to grab hair stacks of equal sizes, then you can go on to the next level of selectively utilizing smaller stacks to achieve special effects like the stripes and spots I put on this diver: Keep going, you're getting there and will arrive shortly! -- Mike

I just get the packs of ten they sell at Wal Mart for less than $2. And yes, they are easily bendable. -- Mike